Mineral Lease

bhammer

Ensign
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
963
All,

Anyone have any experience with a company that wants to lease the mineral rights of gas and oil? We have a company that has mailed the majority of owners in my neighborhood. The jest of it is $15,000 up front bonus and then 25% royalty on the net acre, which in my case is a 1/4 acre. I have read that you should try and separate out the oil and gas but that is about it.

Looking for input.
 

bhammer

Ensign
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
963
Re: Mineral Lease

He's my neighbor so to speak so I am sure some of his oil and gas leaked over into my yard. :D

I can just hear the Beverly Hillbilly's song playing in my head, not. The only problem is we are not tlaking about any big bucks here, maybe a couple hundred dollars a year. I'd rather them jsut give me a direct gas hook up for NG and for my car / boat. :D
 

JB

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Messages
45,907
Re: Mineral Lease

I sure wish they had offered $15K/acre out here in the sticks!! We only got $275 and acre. :(

I am sure that the leases for urban and suburban land are very different in other ways, too. My son, who lives in Arlington has had offers up to $25K, but they have to "bundle" with an entire neighborhood, and getting everyone to agree to one set of terms is really turning out to be a can of worms.

I don't think they are interested in oil in the Barnett Shale. They are looking for gas only.

I think I would have been happy to accept an unlimited supply of NG. :)
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Mineral Lease

The part about the 25% royalty is actually a bit more than what I have seen. Here in south Louisiana, a landowner's royalty is referred to as "a fit," (Cajun for "a fifth"), because it is normally 20%.

While you are being told that royalties will be minimal, don't automatically assume that is correct. You never know - even with 3D seismic, etc., surprises do happen. If you can do so, without spending a bunch of money, I would have a Professional Landman and/or attorney who specializes in oil/gas leases, look over anything that you are asked to sign.

I would also consider peripheral issues if they apply. For example, if your property is affected in any way by the drilling operations, or continuing operations if the well is completed, you may be entitled other forms of compensation. The $15,000 might cover such things and it might not. For example, farmers often receive monthly or annual payments for "crop damage." Such payments take a couple of things into account - the reduction in acreage that the farmer can plant due to the presence of an oil well, its "pad," and its access road, plus ongoing damage as workover rigs and the like service the well.

Get some advice and then enjoy the money, whether it a few hundred dollars a year or a few million!


PS: If it turns out to be a few million a year, the previous advice will cost 10% - I'll send the invoice! :D
 

bhammer

Ensign
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
963
Re: Mineral Lease

I sure wish they had offered $15K/acre out here in the sticks!! We only got $275 and acre. :(

I am sure that the leases for urban and suburban land are very different in other ways, too. My son, who lives in Arlington has had offers up to $25K, but they have to "bundle" with an entire neighborhood, and getting everyone to agree to one set of terms is really turning out to be a can of worms.

I don't think they are interested in oil in the Barnett Shale. They are looking for gas only.

I think I would have been happy to accept an unlimited supply of NG. :)

Wow, only $275. My wife went to a homeowners meeting last night and there were some people who have friends who are getting as much as $27,000 in other neighborhoods. I am sure it is only for gas at this point as the only company who has pipe in the area is Chesapeak and they own land around it so no one can lay more pipe.

Yes, getting the neighborhood to agree on a set of terms I think will be the largest hurdle to overcome. What makes this even more difficult is that we have to vote as an association to allow drilling and then agree to the terms. About 20% of the owners don't own their Rights so they could possibly vote against the drilling and leave us without the ability to work on a unified agreement.

If we can get an association vote to go forward, then there is no requirment to use the one company that is soliciting the offer now, we could look at others.

Still, just pipe me in a solid conenction to NG or just give it to me free and I'd be happy. I go out and buy NG power generators ans power my house off NG.:D
 

bhammer

Ensign
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
963
Re: Mineral Lease

The part about the 25% royalty is actually a bit more than what I have seen. Here in south Louisiana, a landowner's royalty is referred to as "a fit," (Cajun for "a fifth"), because it is normally 20%.

While you are being told that royalties will be minimal, don't automatically assume that is correct. You never know - even with 3D seismic, etc., surprises do happen. If you can do so, without spending a bunch of money, I would have a Professional Landman and/or attorney who specializes in oil/gas leases, look over anything that you are asked to sign.

I would also consider peripheral issues if they apply. For example, if your property is affected in any way by the drilling operations, or continuing operations if the well is completed, you may be entitled other forms of compensation. The $15,000 might cover such things and it might not. For example, farmers often receive monthly or annual payments for "crop damage." Such payments take a couple of things into account - the reduction in acreage that the farmer can plant due to the presence of an oil well, its "pad," and its access road, plus ongoing damage as workover rigs and the like service the well.

Get some advice and then enjoy the money, whether it a few hundred dollars a year or a few million!


PS: If it turns out to be a few million a year, the previous advice will cost 10% - I'll send the invoice! :D


We will be getting copies of the survey and thy will be doing fracture drilling to maximize their take. The guy at the meeting last night who the HOA hired to be there said that most of the othe neighborhoods are getting production royalities of about $1500 per year per acre and they have seen a couple further north that up toward $2500. Heck, that a couple tanks of gas for the boat. :D

If I turned out to be Jed Clampet, I'd invite everyone down and buy all the rounds for a day.
 

fdmsiv

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Mar 2, 2008
Messages
283
Re: Mineral Lease

I have not seen this first hand or experience it myself, but I think it is a point that needs to be made.

Once you sell your mineral rights, you are also selling access to you property. If oil is found the drillers will put the drilling rig up where ever is easiest for them. Drilling is also a 24-7 operation if they do find oil.

I am unclear as to where this land is, but if you live on it you could be waking up and looking out the window onto a drilling rig.

This is also not to mention the constant traffic of trucks, workers, and equipment.

The drilling companies are very excited to talk about the money that you will receive but make sure you read the fine print.
 

bhammer

Ensign
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
963
Re: Mineral Lease

I have not seen this first hand or experience it myself, but I think it is a point that needs to be made.

Once you sell your mineral rights, you are also selling access to you property. If oil is found the drillers will put the drilling rig up where ever is easiest for them. Drilling is also a 24-7 operation if they do find oil.

I am unclear as to where this land is, but if you live on it you could be waking up and looking out the window onto a drilling rig.

This is also not to mention the constant traffic of trucks, workers, and equipment.

The drilling companies are very excited to talk about the money that you will receive but make sure you read the fine print.


Great points..... It would be a lease, not a purchase. The best part is that state law requires them to be 300 to 600 feet from any structures so they won't be in my backyard. The other thing is that laid pipe is about .75 miles from our house and is where the drill rig would go. Also, drilling is only temorary and most will put in several rigs and move out 2 months later once the drilling is complete. Then it's just the pump assy which they are all around here as it is.
 

aspeck

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Re: Mineral Lease

Major NG has been found here in PA - a local hunting club is scrambling to change their incorporation from non-profit to for-profit. The NG company is offering them $750,000 for the lease and 25% of the take ... this deal could be worth millions per year! Wish they were accepting new members!
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Mineral Lease

Your latest info makes me believe even more strongly that you need to seek professional advice. I think you should ask about the representative hired by the HOA. Who is he/she, what are his/her credentials, expertise, etc. I would also want to know if that person has any ties to the industry, that might make him/her likely to be biased in favor of the folks you are negotiating with. This is sort of a difficult balance because anyone with the correct expertise is going to have industry connections, but obviously you want someone who will serve your collective interests, not those of the companies who want to drill on your land.

There are also some issues related to Hydraulic Fracture Drilling, which is also referred to as "fracking." I don't know that much about the method personally, but just did a bit of research. Basically what is done is to inject fluids, which typically contain a number of chemicals, into the formation under pressure. This can sometimes be as much as 350,000 gallons per well, and causes the formation to fracture, thus increasing permeability. In order to hold the fractured areas open, however, as much as 320,000 pounds of "proppants" are injected along with the fracturing fluids. In short, what you have injected into the ground is a toxic soup.

The problems with this are apparently two-fold. First, these fluids have been known to contaminate underground drinking water supplies. If your local sources of drinking water includes wells of any type, you should be very concerned about this. The second issue is containment and disposal of fracturing fluids that re brought back to the surface. Just to give you an idea of what is typically in this stuff, read the following:

Many fracturing fluids contain chemicals that can be toxic to humans and wildlife, and chemicals that are known to cause cancer. These include potentially toxic substances such as diesel fuel, which contains benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, xylene, naphthalene and other chemicals; polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons; methanol; formaldehyde; ethylene glycol; glycol ethers; hydrochloric acid; and sodium hydroxide.[7] Very small quantities of chemicals such as benzene, which causes cancer, are capable of contaminating millions of gallons of water.

Additionally, fracking is often done in conjunction with "acidizing," which is a method of disolving rock to open its pores. This process involves injecting acid (apparently hydrochloric acid most of the time) into the formation.

At a minimum, I would say that any agreement that you reach with these folks should contain very specific language in regard to what will be in the fluids used, and how the fluids will be contained and removed from the site.

One more bit of info that I will offer needs a preface, and that is that I am not providing it out of any political agenda but, rather, because it is apparently a fact.

In 1997 the EPA was ordered by a U.S. Circuit Court (11th District, Atlanta) to regulate Hydraulic Fracture Drilling, under the Safe Drinking Water Act. In 2000, the EPA began a study on the matter, and in 2001 VP **** Cheney convened a task force on energy policy which recommeded, among many other things, that hydraulic fracturing be exempted from the Safe Drinking Water Act. The EPA study was released in 2004 with a recommendation that "no further study of hydraulic fracturing was necessary." What you should know, however, is that there have been claims that political pressure was used get the EPA to remove information from the original draft, which would have resulted in a different conclusion. One EPA whistleblower called the study "scientifically unsound," and apparently felt that the review panel for the study was stacked with oil/gas industry people. His views were later supported by the EPA Inspector General, who recommeded a review of the whistleblower's claims. In spite of that recommendation, a 2005 national energy bill did, in fact, exempt hydraulic fracturing from the Safe Drinking Water Act.

My point in mentioning all of this information is not to take sides in regard to political party, etc. Instead, I think you and your fellow homeowners need to know that the exemption will probably get mentioned, as soon as you ask about environmental concerns. I doubt very much, however, that those who want to use this method on and under your property, will tell you of the level of controversy involved. They are much more likely to want to blow it off by telling you that the matter has been studied and that there is no danger.

I am also not saying that Hydraulic Fracture Drilling can not be employed safely. I would just want to know how that can be accomplished (from someone other than the people who want to drill), and would want some contractual safeguards in place. On top of that, I would want some major insurance in place which covered not only the company involved, but also the homeowners.



PS: For Aspeck, you should be aware of this too, because fracturing is apparently a very common practice, when companies want to extract gas from coal seams.
 

bhammer

Ensign
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Messages
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Re: Mineral Lease

Jay, thank you so much for the information. Yes, the rep that came out was independant and actually does Lease Management for people, at a fee of course. I keep compiling the info for questions and I think we as a homeowner group will ultimatley hire counsel to help us through this. My wafe is now the lead on the group of 5 that will run the study for the HOA and the owners.

Keep it coming, great info.
 

aspeck

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Messages
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Re: Mineral Lease

Jay, in talking with our local DNCR rep, he was mentioning what you have mentioned above. He said the wells are deep enough in this area that you are talking about up to 500,000 gal. of water per well. The problem in our area is that with the increase in building and the lack of rainfall the last few years, we are already water deprived ... meaning that water table has fallen about a foot in the last 2 years. His concern is where are the NG people going to get that amount of water, and what are they going to do with it after they are finished. The last thing we want is another "strip mine/acid run-off" problem like we had in this area years ago.

We need the NG, but at what cost? All good things to ponder.
 

mscher

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Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,424
Re: Mineral Lease

I have not seen this first hand or experience it myself, but I think it is a point that needs to be made.

Once you sell your mineral rights, you are also selling access to you property. If oil is found the drillers will put the drilling rig up where ever is easiest for them. Drilling is also a 24-7 operation if they do find oil.

I am unclear as to where this land is, but if you live on it you could be waking up and looking out the window onto a drilling rig.

This is also not to mention the constant traffic of trucks, workers, and equipment.

The drilling companies are very excited to talk about the money that you will receive but make sure you read the fine print.

Another possible down-side to leases with royalties, is that they pay only if they pump.

If, for any reason, pumping oil or gas elsewhere, becomes more attractive, the leasee can and will, cap "their" wells, pack up the pumps and head down the road, in a heartbeat.

You end up with no revenue, for land you technically don't own and can do little else with.
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Mineral Lease

An extremely good point. I also think that any agreement should contain very specific and stringent language in regard to what happens if/when a well is capped. There should be requirements in regard to removing equipment, pipelines, etc. Thre should also be information in regard to required environmental remediation, etc.

One day I will have to take pictures of the tanks, pipelines, heater treaters, etc. that have been left in our bayous in Louisiana, by unscrupulous E & P companies .... which reminds me of one more thing to consider - bonds to insure cleanup if the company goes broke. While the market is obviously very good right now, things change in the oil and gas business very quickly sometimes.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Mineral Lease

i cant speak for the states, but in canada, i own land with gas on it.....

the oil and gas companies own the rights to the minerals, and i own the suraface rights....they pay me (and the other partners) for the right to use the surface, to get the gas....its worth 5k a year.

when companies want to drill on the land, they offer a bonus of x dollars.....(last one was 50k ish for 3 wells) (they backed out after provincal laws changed, and forfited the money :D)

i would hire a professional....do not hesitate....they do this all the time and know the going rates.

good luck
 

kenimpzoom

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Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Mineral Lease

There are also some issues related to Hydraulic Fracture Drilling, which is also referred to as "fracking." I don't know that much about the method personally, but just did a bit of research. Basically what is done is to inject fluids, which typically contain a number of chemicals, into the formation under pressure. This can sometimes be as much as 350,000 gallons per well, and causes the formation to fracture, thus increasing permeability. In order to hold the fractured areas open, however, as much as 320,000 pounds of "proppants" are injected along with the fracturing fluids. In short, what you have injected into the ground is a toxic soup.

The problems with this are apparently two-fold. First, these fluids have been known to contaminate underground drinking water supplies. If your local sources of drinking water includes wells of any type, you should be very concerned about this. The second issue is containment and disposal of fracturing fluids that re brought back to the surface. Just to give you an idea of what is typically in this stuff, read the following:

Many fracturing fluids contain chemicals that can be toxic to humans and wildlife, and chemicals that are known to cause cancer. These include potentially toxic substances such as diesel fuel, which contains benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, xylene, naphthalene and other chemicals; polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons; methanol; formaldehyde; ethylene glycol; glycol ethers; hydrochloric acid; and sodium hydroxide.[7] Very small quantities of chemicals such as benzene, which causes cancer, are capable of contaminating millions of gallons of water.

Additionally, fracking is often done in conjunction with "acidizing," which is a method of disolving rock to open its pores. This process involves injecting acid (apparently hydrochloric acid most of the time) into the formation.

Dude I deal with frac fluids every day and they are no more toxic than ketchup. Hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide are NOTHING!!! Dont get it on you and it will harm nothing.

This is the same lingo the enviromentowhacos use to scare peole into thinking drilling is bad for the enviroment.

If you really what to know about a more toxic chemical, google dihydrogen monoxide.

P.S. The one thing that oil companies still use is diesel for their fluids. Just stipulate that no diesel will be used for the fluids, there are many alternatives, and with the price of diesel this high, the alternative are darn near as cheap. The biggest impact of diesel is that it will stink.

Ken, oil well drilling fluids engineer
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Mineral Lease

Ken, can you tell us exactly what is in the fluids used for fracking? It would probably be helpful to the OP if you would list all of the fluids used and what the chemical makeup of those fluids is.
 

bhammer

Ensign
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Mar 29, 2008
Messages
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Re: Mineral Lease

Ken, If you have any links or info on what fluids or chemicals are in the frac fluid, I'd be interested to know. I'll keep the info between us iBoaters, or feel free to PM me. Thanks for all the input; I love it....:D
 
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