alternate stringer material?

[cbdigh]

im rebuilding an 18 foot Winchester bowrider/fishing/walkthru windshield boat. it is a 1977 model i believe. anyone know of this brand of boat? it was made in greenville, nc.

my real question is is there an alternative to using wood in the stringers? the floor, stringers and transom are all rotten and water soaked. i have a good idea of how im gonna put it back together but was wondering what to use for the stringers other than 2 pieces of plywood glassed together. i was thinking of sandwiching a 1/4 piece of aluminum between two 1/2 inch pieces of plywood for the transom, would this be too heavy or not worth the money? it has a johnson 115 on it now and i will be going back with a johnson 140 off a fresh complete rebuild.

am i on the right track? i have only ripped up the carpet and cut an inspection hole in the floor so far.

 

[oops!]

Re: alternate stringer material?

first.....im not framillar with the boat.....
but v hull or tri....there all quite simmelar in design.

the aluminum in the transom will do nothing for you.

if i understand the underlying question your asking ....how do i get away from wood....?

you can go to composite products....(stringers and a seacast transom) but they are very expensive....all most cost prohibitive in pleasure craft restorations...thats why we are all still using wood...wood ...if protected well enough...will out last your desire to own the boat....25+ years.

there are some products on the market that look good....but we still dont know how they will bond to traditional boat building products...untill one of us tests them...well never know.....!!!!

i think coors ...erik and i are just about ready to try anything tho....

pick a product...and chances are the gurus here will have tryed them at one time or another...and will give you the skinny !

cheers
oops

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: alternate stringer material?

for added strength in the transom you can go with 3 layers of 1/2 inch the inner layer, turn the grain of the plywood opposite the outer skins. you still end up with a 1 1/2 inch transom. this will give you more strength, than a non bonded sheet of aluminum.

 

[marine4003]

Re: alternate stringer material?

Wood is our friend.....Keep in mind that if there were a easier / faster method of restoring an old boat,the new & improved method would of become the standard by now.Wood is going to adhere to the glass better than any metals,so ,take the advice of these boat guru's and stick w/ wood & glass

 

[Coors]

Re: alternate stringer material?

Wood is our friend.....Keep in mind that if there were a easier / faster method of restoring an old boat,the new & improved method would of become the standard by now.Wood is going to adhere to the glass better than any metals,so ,take the advice of these boat guru's and stick w/ wood & glass

Or epoxy.

 

[cbdigh]

Re: alternate stringer material?

thanks guys for your insight. i was just throwing an idea out there for the aluminum in the transom, i thought it would be too costly and did have thoughts it wouldnt bond to wood and glass. thats why i was thinking of laminating the wood on both sides with the aluminum in between with fiberglass and installing the whole piece at once. but i have changed my mind.

this is my first boat of my own but have grown up on the water all my life. my first experience rebuilding a boat.

BTW: it is V-hull and looks to be very stable and with plenty of room. i will try to get some pics soon.

Does anyone know a rough estimate of how many yards of fiberglass (mat,cloth?) i will need and how many gallons of epoxy to do 5 stringers and the floor and transom in my 18 foot boat? it has a bowrider section in front but i was going to put the floor under that so it is solid floor front to back.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: alternate stringer material?

for added strength in the transom you can go with 3 layers of 1/2 inch the inner layer, turn the grain of the plywood opposite the outer skins. you still end up with a 1 1/2 inch transom. this will give you more strength, than a non bonded sheet of aluminum.

TD, I'm pretty sure that the inner grain of the plywood is already at 90-ish degree angles in alternating layers. I don't know if turning it at a 45 degree angle is possible or desirable though??

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: alternate stringer material?

You had asked about how much Epoxy and cloth to buy, I am about a month away from finishing a Stringer/Transom/Deck job, here is what I consumed.

12 Gallons Total yield Epoxy Resin / Hardner
8oz Cloth 50" wide x 14 yards
1708 Biax Cloth (25oz cloth) 50" x 21ft.

Hope that helps in your decision process.

Lund

 

[cbdigh]

Re: alternate stringer material?

Lund,

did you use so much epoxy because you soaked the wood on both sides before putting in place to be fiberglassed over? i was estimating only 5 gallons and i read that should cover about 50 yds of material.

is 8 oz cloth the recommended weight? i was thinking of using 10 oz cloth with the biax mat/cloth.

 

[oops!]

Re: alternate stringer material?

lund is using a 25 oz cloth that drinks like the dickens.....

5 gallons will get you thru the transom and 2 stringers........

8 oz is good on the deck and the inner transom (laminating)

id use the biax on the strings and for tabbing the trans to the hull..

when laying biax...the matt side goes down

 

[cbdigh]

Re: alternate stringer material?

i have read everywhere that chopped mat is pretty much useless when using epoxy resin is this true or just user opinion?

what about using a woven roving of about 18 oz with a 10 or 8 oz mat alternating layers?

if thats a good plan how much resin would be needed for that weight of material?

if i go with this combination the mat would go down first then the roving and then mat again correct?

 

[Solittle]

Re: alternate stringer material?

Google Coosa - I had this used as an alternate to plywood in the transom of my 23'er with twin V4s.

http://www.coosacomposites.com/

 

[mtnrat]

Re: alternate stringer material?

Google Coosa - I had this used as an alternate to plywood in the transom of my 23'er with twin V4s.

http://www.coosacomposites.com/

I used coosa as well. Used it for stringers, transom and floor. Great stuff, last forever, but expensive.

 

[GregE]

Re: alternate stringer material?

What is the pricing model of that stuff?

 

[mtnrat]

Re: alternate stringer material?

Pricing here:http://www.fisheriessupply.com/onli...e/Shopby/Shop+By+Brand/Ns/P_Sort/cookietest/1

 

[marine4003]

Re: alternate stringer material?

regardless of what you use,how many oz cloth ect,always remember...the strength is in the mat,not the epoxy,i've seen folks repair chines/transoms, whatever, using the glass mat sparingly and glob on semi hardened epoxy..only for it to fail,
i use the "dip" method,using an old cat litter pan,lay out the matting,pour & brush epoxy onto mat,lay-up wet mat onto surface remove excess with plastic bondo spreader, better to wear surgeons gloves....Oh and remember to remove whatever s in the cat litter box.....

 

[oops!]

Re: alternate stringer material?

i have read everywhere that chopped mat is pretty much useless when using epoxy resin is this true or just user opinion?

what about using a woven roving of about 18 oz with a 10 or 8 oz mat alternating layers?

if thats a good plan how much resin would be needed for that weight of material?

if i go with this combination the mat would go down first then the roving and then mat again correct?

if your using epoxy....you dont need matt.......but surface prep is the key....

ruff and scuff the area, then sweep, then vaccume clean, then acetone, let the acetone evaporate, then glass.

those layups you plan, are good, but you will drink resin big time.

with epoxy....it costs more, but you can use less layers, there fore, less work.
with poly you need more for the same stregnth.

poly will be cheeper in the long run. ......the poly vs epoxy question will be around forever, unless epoxy's price drops lots.

good luck

cheers
oops

 

[cbdigh]

Re: alternate stringer material?

I understand I dont need mat with epoxy, but no one touched on the woven roving part of that post.

I think i will just stick with wood for everything, composite materials are too expensive.

I have a good idea of how and what to do with this whole project, I was just trying to get some of the little questions out of the way before I start.

So with that said, Can i just use mat with epoxy? U think 2 layers will be enough for most flat areas like the floor and transom. I know the stringers are special in their construction and lay-up.

 

[Indymike]

Re: alternate stringer material?

You might want to take a look at the system three web site. You can download their epoxy book. You may have to register with them but it is free and very good reading. Click on resource library http://www.systemthree.com
West system also has a good book on fiberglassing. You can pick up a copy at Westmarine and probably other marine stores for a few dollars.