help - motor wont trim all the way down

[Seasprite175]

I just replaced my trim/tilt motor and pump on my 92 115 mercury today. The old motor was sounding very bad, but the motor would still trim all the way up and down. The new motor sounds great and works great when the motor is tilting on the center cylinder. When in contacts the two lower trim cylinders on its way down it seems to get stuck. The lower cylinders will go down an inch or so, but then they stop and the motor starts really working. If you wait a few minutes it will go down another inch and then get stuck again. I have bled it through the fill cap about 15 times and it doesn't seem to help. Do I have a bad check valve in one of the lower cylinders or something? It also had some water in the fluid but i can't see any obvious leaks anywhere. I flushed it out as good as I could and hoped the pump seals might have been the culprit for the leak, but I don't know.

 

[Seasprite175]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

come on - anyone had this problem? I'm about to buy a used tilt/trim unit from ebay but I would like to know whats wrong with mine.

bump

 

[MaggieRose]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

Could be trapped air. Crack open the manual release valve located on the starboard side of the T/T bracket. This should cause the motor to drop down. Close the valve and raise the motor with the T/T. Lower the motor with the T/T. If it hangs up, open the release valve again. this may take 6 to 8 tries to completely purge all air. Also, make sure the unit is topped off with hydraulic fluid (look for cap located on the top of the port housing). I did a completre rebuild on mine and it took numerous cycles before all the air was purged.

 

[Seasprite175]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

I wish I could try that, but the former owner chewed up the plastic head of the valve and I have not been able to use it. It is stuck in the closed position and does not leak as far as I can tell. I have been using a small metal bolt that goes in vertically just behind the trim motor as a substitute release valve, but I don't know if it will help bleed air like the manual release valve would. When i loosen the bolt fluid runs out and the motor goes down, but it still will not go all the way down even with the drain valve on the bottom and the bolt by the electric motor open. I have been bleeding it with the fill cap as my service manual says to, but this doesn't seem to help. Anyway, thanks for the advice and I would appreciate it if you had any more.

Tom

 

[holloway]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

Where did you get the pump and motor from? I just replaced mine on an 89 135 Mariner, it did the same thing. Worked great on tilt, stopped movement on trim.

 

[MaggieRose]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

You should replace the release valve when you get a chance. They come in REAL handy when the need arises and don't cost that much. Seeing your original valve is F%^#ed up, try this. Heat (red hot) the end of a large bladed, screwdriver (can be a flat or phillips head, should not be bigger than the diameter of head on the release valve). Push the hot tip onto the end of the release valve (it will burn in a new slot or cross on the release valve head). Spray it with water to cool and harden the head. You should now be able to use that same screwdriver to open and close the vavle. DO NOT open the valve more that three turns, unless you are taking the valve out for replacement.

 

[Seasprite175]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

Where did you get the pump and motor from? I just replaced mine on an 89 135 Mariner, it did the same thing. Worked great on tilt, stopped movement on trim.

I got it from a place called arrowheadep.com, it was half the price of an arco or sierra part. I am real happy with the motor and pump, it works great and came with new relays and everything. I was reading my service manual and I'm not sure if I have the chamfer on the pump facing the correct direction. I'm going to pull it off again and check that. If that doesn't fix it, I'm going to try to buy a used tilt/trim unit.

 

[Seasprite175]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

You should replace the release valve when you get a chance. They come in REAL handy when the need arises and don't cost that much. Seeing your original valve is F%^#ed up, try this. Heat (red hot) the end of a large bladed, screwdriver (can be a flat or phillips head, should not be bigger than the diameter of head on the release valve). Push the hot tip onto the end of the release valve (it will burn in a new slot or cross on the release valve head). Spray it with water to cool and harden the head. You should now be able to use that same screwdriver to open and close the vavle. DO NOT open the valve more that three turns, unless you are taking the valve out for replacement.

That sounds like a good way to remove the release valve, I might have to try it. Mine does have a broken off easy-out in it though, so that might complicate things. Just out of curiosity, what happens when you open the valve more than three turns? Thanks for the advice.

 

[MaggieRose]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

Limiting the amount of open turns allows you to control how fast the engine drops. Not sure why anyone would use an easyout on one of those valves. I think they are made of nylon. If you manage to extract the easyout, Burning the end of the valve with a red hot screwdriver tip workedfor me on an old unit.

Good luck.

 

[holloway]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

I got it from a place called arrowheadep.com, it was half the price of an arco or sierra part. I am real happy with the motor and pump, it works great and came with new relays and everything. I was reading my service manual and I'm not sure if I have the chamfer on the pump facing the correct direction. I'm going to pull it off again and check that. If that doesn't fix it, I'm going to try to buy a used tilt/trim unit.

Be sure and post what you figure out, I'm curious if I put mine in 180 degrees out. It's no fun changeing this style pump.

Thanks,
Holloway

 

[MaggieRose]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

BEFORE you break apart anything, match mark the connecting surfaces. When you put it back together, just make sure the marks line up. Winring on these motors is pretty easy because the wiring is color coded.

 

[Seasprite175]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

I Lined up the new pump just like the old one came out, but it was a little confusing because my seloc brand service manual was not very clear on the alignment of the pump. I took it out last night to verify it was in correctly, and it was. I put it back together and am having the same problem, but I think I was making progress getting air out of the system. Everytime it trims down into the lower two cylinders it hangs up and I hear air bubbles inside the system. I then crack the fill cap and air escapes. Next I trim it down until it hangs up again and repeat. After it goes down, I trim it all the way up and refill the reservoir. After this process, It will still hang up when it goes down but it was getting a little better. I ran out of fluid last night so I'm buying more today and am going to try to get all the air out of that system and hope it works after that. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

 

[wargle2]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

"Seasprite" I have the exact same problem as you do with my '94, 90hp Merc. I had to replace the T/T motor and pump due to a seized pump. Now it will trim and tilt to full up pretty good from the full down position, but when I try to let it down , it does good till it hits the trim cylinders and stops. The pump continues to run but the motor won't move. If I stop and start, it will move down about an inch or less each time. I tried "MaggieRose's" suggestion of raising full up and opening the bypass valve five or six times to lower the motor down. When the motor get to the last inch or so of travel it sounds like there is either a last squirt of fluid out of the cylinders or there is air being forced out. If I tilt to the full up, and vent the fill cap no air comes out. Should I continue with the "MaggieRose" treatment or does someone have another idea? The new pump went in the same way as the old one.

 

[oldtruckface]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

I am having the exact same problem after putting in a new motor/pump and relays, now I,m wondering if some of these motors are not strong enough to trim it all the way down,the relays heat up a lot after going up and down to bleed it.
maybe the original mercury trim motors are stronger? could that be?

 

[Ptolmy]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

What kind of fluid are you guys using?
Maybe the replacement pumps require a different weight of oil to work properly.

 

[Seasprite175]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

you might be right oldtruckface, my new motor I bought started having problems after about 20-25 up/down cycles trying to bleed it out. I gave it a chance to cool down after every cycel, and this was done over the course of a week. It just didn't seem to have the power to compress those two trim cylinders. Now, it sounds likes its done for, it runs but it speeds up and slows down and is way down on power. The used mercury unit I bought seems to sound like the motor is running much better. Those aftermarket motors just are not heavy duty enough, at least the cheap ones like I bought. I am using type F atf fluid, which is what my seloc service manual says to use. The stuff in the used t/t unit I bought is brown(?), while the type F stuff is red. Does anyone know what the brown stuff is. At first I thought it was contaminated red fluid, but it isn't milky at all like I have seen before. Whatever it is, the unit works smoothly and I hope it lasts awhile.

 

[jd438]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

It sounds like we are all having the same problem. Goes up just fine, but once it hits the trim cylinders it bogs way down. Doesn't make sense, because it lifts just fine. I think there has to be air in there causing the problem. I am going to try the manual release tomorrow to see if that helps. Anyone having problems with the fluid foaming up? I figure if I have foam there must be air somewhere causing it.

 

[rick24]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

Just Wondering How You Solved Your Problem ?

How Did You Get All The Air Out Of The System ?

Did You Have To Replace The Trim Pump And Valvebody ?

Thanks Rick

 

[hkeiner]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

Perhaps the below attached troubleshooting guide will be helpful to you.

 

[rick24]

Re: help - motor wont trim all the way down

Thanks for the info.

My condition is L . When my I am lowering my trim it gets almost all the way down an then starts to go back while still holding the trim button in the down position.

I recently had the rams rebuilt to cure my problem but that didn't work. They replaced all the o-rings #4 most likely isn't my problem .

#3 should be my problem . Is the piston ball located inside the ram ?

I have An Apha 1 drive generation 2 .

Thanks Rick