Frustrated and venting...

[Jerico]

Am I an optimist or an idiot? October 4, 2005, my grandson was murdered by his mother's (not our daughter) boyfriend. We have worked for over a year to get a bill written. The four points are 1. When there are multiple hotline calls, pay closer attention. 2. If the child is in immediate danger tell the caller to call 911. 3. Don't leave a card when trying to make an emergency visit and no one answers the door. In our case it gave them a chance to clean the house, threaten the child, and hide the drugs. 4. Evaluate workers involved in a death or serious injury case to see if they need help, training, or discipline. Do any of these 4 points really sound like a bad idea?

Here's one of the latest in a long list of reports over the past 2 years: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008804070335

PS: I'm Tim in the report.

PSS: My question is NOT to start a political or societal debate. I truely would like to get opinions regarding the 4 points. PLEASE do not turn this into a slam the government or family services thing...

 

[pduquette]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

Hi Jerico, sorry about your loss. I feel your bill is right on the mark and makes sence. I'd guess any resistance is going to be to the accountibility aspect of the bill . I think Mass has tried to raise levels of acountibility for dss/hhs workers after several high profile losses. Best suggestion i can give is to keep it in the news on several types of media. (sounds like your doing this)
Keep getting the lawmakers on camera , ask them the tuff questions, and never give up. you have my prayers.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

I don't think I fully understand it. Case workers (non-emergency) who are investigating hotline calls who show up to a house when no one answers the door wouldn't be permitted to leave any information on how to contact them, right? I don't get it, what's the point of that? They can't sit on a house until someone comes home for a non-emergency investigation, so why not leave something that might enable them to make contact with the residents sooner rather than later?

Also, in the case of the performance evaluations, why have someone determining wether or not an evaluation is necessary? In the event of a death they should be mandatory. Additionally, it needs to be re-written to state that the evaluations have to be done within whatever time period of the DISCOVERY of the death. Otherwise there will be cases where the death is not discovered for more than 3 days, then there's no need for them to do an evaluation because they were already in violation from the time the death was discovered, so why bother?

By the way, my heart goes out to you. Having lost my BIL (brother in law by marriage to my sister in law) to a senseless murder in 2005, I can relate somewhat. My sister in law was left with 5 kids, no income and he had no life insurance. Furtuneately my wife and I are in a position to be able to provide a majority of their expenses. I feel almost fortuneate in some ways that it took place in a different country where justice is still available, and swift too. My BIL's murderer was captured in 2006, spent a year in a 5x5 cell with close to 10 or 15 other inmates, then was executed allong with his two brothers (unrelated charges except that those charges were discovered durring the investigation into my BIL's murder), which was no less than they deserved. In your case, a life sentance in the vacation resorts we call the american prison system isn't justice for what he did to your grandson, especially if there's a possiblity of parole after some period of time as there usually is here; and what was it for her, only 4 years? That's nothing short of a complete joke.

If you ask me, you should add something to your bill that would raise the minimum sentance. That might rub the judge or prosecutor the wrong way a little bit, but they'll get over it.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

Tim,

Sorry for your loss.......

I applaud your diligence on this.

My only opinion is for item #" 2. If the child is in immediate danger tell the caller to call 911. "

I would not hesitate to make that 911 call myself. I can not see or expect a caller (who calls) to make an additional call. Whomever they are talking with should take the initiative to make that call ASAP.

We are all on your side on this.

Bob

 

[JB]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

I'm really sorry this happened, Tim. It is tragic that the best of systems to protect both children and the rights of custodial parents sometimes fail.

Hindsight is usually 20-20. One needs to contemplate what effect this bill would have on future cases in which children are not in immediate danger and/or the accusations of abuse are fabricated or mistaken.

My old fashioned country values suggest that had that been my grandson I would be the one in jail and the child would be safe.

 

[PW2]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

Like the others, I am sorry for the loss...

The hotline ought to be able to redirect the call to 911 in case of immediate danger. Not just tell the caller to make another call.

The rest of it I'm not sure what the point of it is. DSS can't do much without a court being involved in it--In the case of taking immediate action on something being required, they'll virtually always involve the police.

The general complaint about DSS is they overstep their bounds rather than not doing enough. I think you might be trying to get more out of DSS than they are capable of providing.

When they have a case where an injury or death occurs to one of the casefiles, that I would think always triggers an internal investigation.

 

[Jerico]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the thoughts, prayers, and input. I'm too close to the issue which makes it hard sometimes to see the points objectively. I would like to elaborate a little based on your responses and welcome your thoughts. To me it helps in understanding other viewpoints and being better prepared.

Regarding 911, we are taught if an adult is in trouble call 911. If it is a child call the hotline. Sometimes the child doesn't have the 3-4 hours minimum for the hotline process. Missouri 911 is decentralized. Each city or county has their own, so the best process we can come up with is if the child is in immediate danger advise the caller to dial 911.

Regarding the business card. Specifically related to eminent danger calls the statute requires they make an attempt to see the child within 3 hours of assignment to the investigator. Instead of using resources like the police to find the child, leaving a card resets the clock. It also gives the accused an extra window to clean up and prepare. In my grandson's case the abuser setup the appointment with the investigator. When she did visit over 24 hours later she stated "The house was neat, clean, orderly and there was adequate food." I can understand leaving a card in a 72 hour possible complaint case. When it is an eminent danger call, they need to see the child, not reset the clock.

The worker review issue is a tough one. We started out with mandatory. It came down to mandatory and the entire bill is dead. Make it an evaluation and that part can slide through. There is a Child Death Review Board that looks at what happened, but it is very limited in the scope of evaluating the workers involved in the case.

PW2, here in Missouri DSS usually does the initial investigation. From that they decide to bring in the police, juvenile services or close the call.

Please understand, our view is DSS does a job that most of us don't even want to admit needs to be done. We are intimately familiar with the system not just from this incident, but also were licensed foster parents until just recently. We are looking for ways to help and enhance the system, not slam and destroy it.

Thanks again for you're responses.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

Well I'm sorry for your loss and wish you well. Most of all, I applaud you for actually pursuing a bill and working with your legislators to make it better in the future - it's nothing short of commendable...

 

[PW2]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

Obviously, I'm not familiar with Missouri, but I am somewhat familiar with general proceedures as my ex-wife was a CPS caseworker in Washington State. It is a very difficult job, and they often walk a fine line.

Taking a kid out of a situation, and putting them in emergency foster care is something they don't take lightly, and they rarely want to do it without police involvement.

They really can't do anything without court involvement of some sort.

I would get the office of the state Attorney General's office together with DSS and police authorities and kind of brainstorm what they can do. You don't want to have unintended consequences that make it worse, and operating from an overly emotional start is likely to result in that.

My experience is that most caseworkers, if it was their choice alone, would tend to error on the side of child safety, but then they put themselves at significant risk if they act too hastily.

The reality is that unless there is imminent danger to a child involved, they can't do much more than you describe. If I were to suggest a course of action for you to pursue, it would be that whenever there was doubt regarding welfare of a child, call 911 and let the police sort it out.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

I'm really sorry this happened, Tim. It is tragic that the best of systems to protect both children and the rights of custodial parents sometimes fail.

Hindsight is usually 20-20. One needs to contemplate what effect this bill would have on future cases in which children are not in immediate danger and/or the accusations of abuse are fabricated or mistaken.

My old fashioned country values suggest that had that been my grandson I would be the one in jail and the child would be safe.

Tragic thing to happen and my heart goes out to you for all you are doing Tim.
I agree with JB on this one.....I think that I would be the one in jail as well !!!!

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

I understand their need to see the child, but if no one comes to the door, what tools do they have to make contact with the child?

The thought occurs to me that the bill could easily be re-written to dispatch police for eminent danger calls, and that would solve the problems as the call itself would be sufficient for police to force entry to the home if no one answers the door. I would think eminent danger calls would be more appropriately handled by police anyway, then the police can determine whether or not to get DSS involved.

As I understand it, they are overworked anyway, so transferring that responsibility to a department that is properly equipped to do the task would also help free up some of their time to work on other cases.

 

[jay.robinson15]

Re: Frustrated and venting...

Unfortunately the police don't always do such a great job of handling eminent danger calls either. But they are the first department you have to turn to.