Seeing is believeing

[bruceb58]

Re: Seeing is believeing

Yeah, you were probably getting all sorts of weird things happening because you were getting sneak path grounds through other components.

 

[ccmarsh]

Re: Seeing is believeing

Now that you have the wiring straight is it turning over fast enough or firing?

Well...yes and no. When I turn the key it starts to rotate and a slower speed but then will get a burst, slow down, get a burst and then turn over. Another thing that I have noticed is that when the engine gets a burst, the electric choke opens the carb up all the way and then it turns over. Today I'm going to try to start it with the throttle in the WOT position. I didn't know this until after reading it in this forum but there is a switch in the handle of my throttle that allows me to open it up all the way and still start it. I guess it's a built in feature for cold starting.(wish they would have told me that when they installed it). Buy the way, after reading about the cold starting feature I downloaded the manual for my throttle and found out that it was also wired incorrectly. Man I love the manuals and this forum.

Thank you all so much for your help. You can put a price on what I have learned and the money I have saved because of all of you.

Thanks again.

 

[Windykid]

Re: Seeing is believeing

You should check your battery, Have it load tested. If the battery is good, you may have a dragging starter.

 

[Windykid]

Re: Seeing is believeing

Also check all battery connections and engine main grounds.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Seeing is believeing

I would be concerned that the speeding up at a regular interval while turning over represents a cylinder with no compression (stuck valve or way bad piston rings or hole in the piston), or there is no spark plug in that one. I'm just sayin'.....

 

[oops!]

Re: Seeing is believeing

im not a mech....but the above statment has merrit.

as well....i would look at the starter to see if it is getting everything it needs....a bad starter will turn very slo...and draw huge amps.

 

[ccmarsh]

Re: Seeing is believeing

You should check your battery, Have it load tested. If the battery is good, you may have a dragging starter.

Did it they said the batteries were fine and I also took off my starter and had it tested, it was fine also.

Also check all battery connections and engine main grounds.

I did, I also moved the batteries closer to the engine and changed all the battery wires with new plugs and soldered them as well.

I would be concerned that the speeding up at a regular interval while turning over represents a cylinder with no compression (stuck valve or way bad piston rings or hole in the piston), or there is no spark plug in that one. I'm just sayin'.....

Well they all have spark plugs I can tell you that, as far as the compression I do need to test to see where I am but I couldn't do that since the engine wouldn't turn more than once or twice.

im not a mech....but the above statment has merrit.

as well....i would look at the starter to see if it is getting everything it needs....a bad starter will turn very slo...and draw huge amps.

It's fine.

I did some other things today (checked wiring and grounds and connections) as well as something else.

Earlier in these threads I had mentioned reading about my throttle and the button it has to do the cold start. I set it today and tried to start the boat and you'll never guess what happened......It started up better than my 2002 Ford pickup. It was music to my ears. But then I got nervous so I shut it off.

So then I was thinking, could it be, has it finally come back to life after all these weeks. So I tried to start it again, instantly it started...........however........I think that throttle release thing is a one time deal because I had left WOT because that's how I started it just a second ago but this time the engine reved up so fast that it back fired. So now I'm freaking out thinking I just ruined my engine. I put the throttle back to neutral and I tried to start it again and I was back to my old problems so now I'm hoping its something in the way the guy wired my throttle because another thing that has been weird since I bought the boat is that I have three buttons on the dash to raise and lower my prop, well with the new throttle I bought it comes with one button on the handle that allows me to raise and lower the prop but not the full range. The button on the throttle is for help getting up on plane or trolling. Well ever since I got my boat back I have been able to raise the prop all the way. At first I thought is was cool but now I know better and will spend tomorrow checking the wiring.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Seeing is believeing

Your carb may have been flooded some form the previous attempts at starting. Having the throttle open between halfway and WOT while starting probably cleared the flooding and got the air/fuel ratio right and the engine liked it and caught. If an engine is flooded then WOT will clear the flooded condition as it cranks for a bit but as soon as it clears and the engine begins to rev up move the throttle back to 1/3 or less. The backfire probably did no damage to the engine itself but it could have damaged some internal carb parts if it is a Holley, specifically the power valve. If the diaphragm on that got damaged then it will run rich at idle and cruising. The fuel bowl can also drain thru the damaged power valve diaphragm into the manifold while the engine is not running and cause a flooding condition on the next startup.

I think I understand what you mean on the throttle, please excuse the next few sentences if this is old knowledge to you as I rehash it....The throttle should have two modes. One mode will allow the outdrive to go into gear depending on which way and how far the handle is moved. In that mode the engine can only be started in neutral. The other mode should allow only forward movement and will not allow the outdrive to go into gear and the engine can be started at any throttle setting. It sounds like the second mode on yours is achieved with the "cold start" button pushed in. That is the correct mode to use for initial starting (or anytime you want to throttle the engine safely without fear of going into gear) to pump the carb and set the choke by moving the throttle to WOT then pulling back to idle or just above to start.

 

[wire knot]

Re: Seeing is believeing

Hey Cris,
You mentioned about the elec. choke.
I'll see if I can help some. I've recently brought back to life an '75 motor
Some things I have learned on the carb/choke thing u touched on.

Your choke NEEDS to work properly for her to start/run/warmup.
I have a elec. choke rochester'
I believe it should operate like this:

The choke valve(the large flap) should be all the way closed. when cold.
When she starts to turn over, the valve should open slightly( there is a vacuum pull off for this, small funnel thing w/hose)
As she runs, the elec choke will start to open the valve completely, (this is a function of 12v being applied to the pull-off and has nothing to do w/engine)
If after a while of trying to start, the choke will be open, (because 12V has been on) not good if she hasn't started. You may need to let her sit awhile to close the choke.
Make sure if she doesn't start, u turn your key OFF

You can check the choke operation just by keeping the ign. on and watching the valve. it should open slowly as the power stays on.
If she is open as you try to start cold, it will be way too lean and she wont start.
If the valve is closed and she is warm it will be way too rich.

On the throttle u should ......when cold
"floor" the throttle two or three times to Prime the manifold.
leave the throttle about halfway open and try to start.
if she starts, try to make sure she doesn't rev over 2000 rpm untill warm


Not a MECHanic, I just learned these things the hard way,
and by reading I-Boats.

Hope this helps
WK

 

[Maclin]

Re: Seeing is believeing

Good stuff WK!

 

[Windykid]

Re: Seeing is believeing

I would be concerned that the speeding up at a regular interval while turning over represents a cylinder with no compression (stuck valve or way bad piston rings or hole in the piston), or there is no spark plug in that one. I'm just sayin'.....

Or a bad battery, connections or starter.

 

[ccmarsh]

Re: Seeing is believeing

Your carb may have been flooded some form the previous attempts at starting. Having the throttle open between halfway and WOT while starting probably cleared the flooding and got the air/fuel ratio right and the engine liked it and caught. If an engine is flooded then WOT will clear the flooded condition as it cranks for a bit but as soon as it clears and the engine begins to rev up move the throttle back to 1/3 or less. The backfire probably did no damage to the engine itself but it could have damaged some internal carb parts if it is a Holley, specifically the power valve. If the diaphragm on that got damaged then it will run rich at idle and cruising. The fuel bowl can also drain thru the damaged power valve diaphragm into the manifold while the engine is not running and cause a flooding condition on the next startup.

I'm not in the water just so you know but I always use the fake a lake with the hose turned up as far as it can go. That's why I'm concerned.

I think I understand what you mean on the throttle, please excuse the next few sentences if this is old knowledge to you as I rehash it....The throttle should have two modes. One mode will allow the outdrive to go into gear depending on which way and how far the handle is moved. In that mode the engine can only be started in neutral.

Correct.

The other mode should allow only forward movement and will not allow the outdrive to go into gear and the engine can be started at any throttle setting. It sounds like the second mode on yours is achieved with the "cold start" button pushed in. That is the correct mode to use for initial starting (or anytime you want to throttle the engine safely without fear of going into gear) to pump the carb and set the choke by moving the throttle to WOT then pulling back to idle or just above to start.

I understand what your saying thank you.

Hey Cris,
You mentioned about the elec. choke.
I'll see if I can help some. I've recently brought back to life an '75 motor
Some things I have learned on the carb/choke thing u touched on.

Your choke NEEDS to work properly for her to start/run/warmup.
I have a elec. choke rochester'
I believe it should operate like this:

The choke valve(the large flap) should be all the way closed. when cold.
When she starts to turn over, the valve should open slightly( there is a vacuum pull off for this, small funnel thing w/hose)
As she runs, the elec choke will start to open the valve completely, (this is a function of 12v being applied to the pull-off and has nothing to do w/engine)
If after a while of trying to start, the choke will be open, (because 12V has been on) not good if she hasn't started. You may need to let her sit awhile to close the choke.
Make sure if she doesn't start, u turn your key OFF

You can check the choke operation just by keeping the ign. on and watching the valve. it should open slowly as the power stays on.
If she is open as you try to start cold, it will be way too lean and she wont start.
If the valve is closed and she is warm it will be way too rich.

On the throttle u should ......when cold
"floor" the throttle two or three times to Prime the manifold.
leave the throttle about halfway open and try to start.
if she starts, try to make sure she doesn't rev over 2000 rpm untill warm


Not a MECHanic, I just learned these things the hard way,
and by reading I-Boats.

Hope this helps
WK

Thank you.

Or a bad battery, connections or starter.

You know I had both my batteries checked a few months ago. I'll get them checked again though. Thank you.