Performace Mode Help

[Bry21317]

NOTE: Sorry about the Typo in the title of the Thread. It was supposed to say MOD, not Mode.

Just looking to find out what cam would be the best for my setup.

I have purchased some parts to upgrade my boat.

The boat is a 1994 Crownline 196 Bowrider Hull. The engine is a 5.0 Mercruiser with an Alpha 1 drive. It has a 2 bbl Carb and stock intake.

I already have these new parts to put on it, Edelbrock Performer RPM Air gap Intake and a New Edelbrock 4 bbl Carb. The carb is the 1409 Marine Model. I am making sure to keep everything MARINE Certified, so this is no problem.

My boat has Thru hull exhaust, that comes directly through the transom. I am looking to change out the Cam while I am in there having the Intake and Carb Replaced. I figure I may as well get all the power out of it that I can.

I want to boat to still idle good, but am just looking for a boost in the midrange to top end. Currently with the 2 bbl setup it will run right at about 51mph by GPS.

I have been looking at the Edelbrock Cam and Lifter Kits from Summitracing.com, but am not sure which model would work the best my boat.

Any help that you guys could give me would be great.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Don S]

Re: Performace Mode Help

A 5.7 Longblock.
In a boat, cu. in. gives you the torque you need to get it going, not just high end HP.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Don,
I have the Chevy 305, and will not change that out yet, as it runs perfect and only has 163 hours on it. I was just looking to do some mods to it, as I like to tinker with stuff. It pulls hard out of the water and I am not upset about the performance now, I just want to do the upgrades.

I know a 350 would run harder than the 305 that I have now, but I just want to mod this some, and then down the road when repower times comes alone, I will go with the 350 block.

Thanks for any information you can give me on the Cam.

Bryan

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Performace Mode Help

stock cam is....

 

[John_S]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Probably best to stay with stock. You could go slightly bigger than stock, but won't have much increase (10-15hp). Do you have flat or roller hyd cam now?

Cam replacement in the boat can be "fun" getting a good seal on the timing cover and oil pan.

If you hadn't already purchased intake, you could have looked at going to vortec heads.

 

[Mkos1980]

Re: Performace Mode Help

I would run the Crane Powermax 2032 Cam (Old version of the compucam 2032) You can get away with it, with just valve springs, but make sure you check retainer to guide clearance. I ran this with good sesults on a 350 Mag.

 

[John_S]

Re: Performace Mode Help

That is a decent cam for a 350 with the intake he has choosen. In a 350, it is good for about 25hp. In a 305, probably around 20hp. He probably has a flat based lifter cam though, so upgrading to this roller cam could be expensive. It might be a little too much for an otherwise stock 305. Maybe the 2031 would match better. (not sure of that number-books are not in front of me)

The rpm intake is essentially the same as the 350 mag highrise dual plane. I think I would have gone with a Performer eps, which is still slightly more than the 5.0LX manifold.

I think the 5.0L and 5.0LX used different advance curves too.

 

[Mkos1980]

Re: Performace Mode Help

That is a decent cam for a 350 with the intake he has choosen. In a 350, it is good for about 25hp. In a 305, probably around 20hp. He probably has a flat based lifter cam though, so upgrading to this roller cam could be expensive. It might be a little too much for an otherwise stock 305. Maybe the 2031 would match better. (not sure of that number-books are not in front of me)

The rpm intake is essentially the same as the 350 mag highrise dual plane. I think I would have gone with a Performer eps, which is still slightly more than the 5.0LX manifold.

I think the 5.0L and 5.0LX used different advance curves too.

Ahh very true. I was forgetting about the 305 lol. Converting to a hyd roller can be somewhat cheap though if getting used parts. I picked up a set of lifters, pushrods, lifter links and retainer hold down for 40 bucks on ebay. Then 50 for a timing chain and retainer plate from GM.

 

[QC]

Re: Performace Mode Help

In a boat, cu. in. gives you the torque you need to get it going

Only true if it is a problem to begin with. His boat runs 51 MPH as is, I guarantee he does not require more torque to plane it. Yes, when he mods the engine it may allow for an increase in pitch, and that in turn would require more torque at low RPM for planing, but I absolutely guarantee again that he has plenty of reserve torque and HP now, or it wouldn't go 51 MPH . . .

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Is a 94 a Vortec? If not the 4bbl,new intake and some Vortec heads would be a huge increase.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Performace Mode Help

The 94 model that I have does not have the Vortec Heads on it. I have heard that would make a huge difference also. I will think about that down the road, just trying to get a little boost now.

Well I just talked to the old owner and here is what he said some of the specs were to the motor, now I am not sure if it is stock or not, but from what he was thinking it was, but for the cam already in place.

Flat Top pistons
steel crank
Forged Rods
Compression 9.5 to 1
He thinks its a Crane Cam Fireball, from what he remembers.

Does this sound stock or not other than the cam has been changed?

Also yes this motor has plenty of torque to pull me out of the water with a 21 Pitch Rev 4. I now need to see how this prop will run with the enhancements of the Upgraded 4bbl and Intake. I might have to send the prop back to BBlades to get more cupping added. I just got it back over Xmas and it was labb finished and he added some cup. Then I decided to go ahead and do this upgrade, so It may have to go back. Or it will be quite a bit faster and to high a RPMS with the ugprades. The boat will run top speed all day long no matter how much weight I have in the boat. It will do the same with 2 people or 7 people. So I am not sure why, as I have never had a boat that would do this. My old boat also was a bayliner with a 125 HP Force so that could also be why lol.

Bryan

 

[Bondo]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Does this sound stock or not other than the cam has been changed?

Nope,..... It sounds like the PO was Smoking something.......

I also question your choice of Intake manifold,.....
Isn't that Air-Gap, RPM a Single plane manifold,..??..??
If it Is,...... You ain't gonna like it,.....
Boats Really Need a Dual-Plane manifold to get out of the hole.......
Especially a little bitty 305........
A dual-plane manifold will Pull from idle to 5500rpms.........
An open plenum manifold pulls from 1500 rpms,+ Up........In other words, they Suck in a Boat.......

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Bondo,
The manifold that I got is a Dual Plain. The model that I got is an exact Replica of the Edelbrock but made by Professional Products, and used by others in another boat forum. I was able to purchase it from one of the Engine builders that frequents that forum. Also when you say the PO was smoking something, do you mean he is full of Sh** on what has been done to the motor?

CROSSWIND? for 23? Heads
1957-?95 Small Block Chevy V8

Polished
52025

The new CrossWind Manifold is a special version of the 52020/52021. While it is the exact same height, it features an open area under the plenum chamber. This provides for a flow of cooling air which keeps the temperature of the air/fuel charge lower thus producing more power and torque. The interior plenum and port design are identical to the 52020/52021 and will provide somewhat better overall power than the 52020/52021 due to the special air gap style design.

Information on the 52020 that is mentioned above.

The Power+Plus Typhoon Manifold is a high performance dual plane, 180? street manifold designed to be used with Holley, Carter AFB, or Edelbrock square bore carbs. For street applications use 600-700 cfm vacuum secondary carbs. For high performance street, use 700- 800 cfm double pumper carburetors. This manifold produces power comparable to some single plane manifolds yet retains the throttle response and drive ability typical of a dual plane. This manifold also features cast-in nitrous bosses with water outlets at all four corners plus dual distributor holddowns. This manifold is .70-inches taller than the #52000 or #52001. It has a provision to add an oil fill tube. No provision for exhaust heated or stock style chokes. Accepts late model waterneck, A/C, alternator, and HEI. Will fit cast iron bow tie heads and ?87-?95 cast iron or aluminum heads. Will not fit under a stock Vette hood.



Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Bondo]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Also when you say the PO was smoking something, do you mean he is full of Sh** on what has been done to the motor?
Flat Top pistons
steel crank
Forged Rods
Compression 9.5 to 1
He thinks its a Crane Cam Fireball, from what he remembers.

Ayuh,.........

305s have Dish pistons,.......
ALL Rods are Forged.......
And,.....
I Really Doubt there's a Steel crank in it.......
With that said,......
He's probably Full of it about the Cam as well.....

Why don't you do the Carb.,+ Manifold,+ Run it........
Wait til you're ready for that 350 before you start worrying about a Cam......
You gotta pull the motor to Properly install a Cam anyways......

Those 305 have pretty small Valves,+ don't Breathe for sh!te,......
Wait til you can build a Great Package,.........
Instead of Bubblegumming a mismash of parts together.......

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Thanks Bondo,

I got it now. The mechanic that I am going to get to install the Intake and Carb for me is pretty good, and said he could tell by listening to it if there is a cam. That should tell us if the previous owner is full of it or not for sure.

I will just stick with the Intake and Carb update. Unless the PO can give me the specs on the cam, as he stated on his message that he would find them and call me back.

Thanks man.

Bryan

 

[achris]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Remember that you will be trading horsepower at the top end for torque at the bottom end, and also reliability.

Even if you pick up 30 more horsepower, that translates into about 2 knots. Is it worth it? Probably not. Change the manifold and carb, leave the rest well enough alone!

My 0.02

Chris..............

 

[John_S]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Sounds like this may have come from someones project car. You might want to check to see if you have a marine fuel pump and distributer.

That intake, is the alum equivelent to the 350 mag intake with no egr crossover and a seperation of the runners from the base. The hot oil in the lifter valley will not heat the intake runners, providing a cooler/denser fuel charge. It also has a cut-out of the divider between the dual planes, to get some higher rpms, more like a single plane. This is an old street rodders trick. RPMs your motor will not see.

If we were talking about a stock mercruiser 5.0L, I would not recommend using that intake.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Here are a few pictures of the current engine. I was told that it is all Marine Coast Guard Certified, but I Honestly do not know myself. I will have the mechanic that I am going to have install the Intake and Carb for me, since hes only charging around $125 to do it, so I figured it was worth that for me not to have to spend all day on it and learn as I go. I thought about doing it myself, but figured I would rather have it done right and not have to worry about my learning curve on it. I will also have him make sure everything is Marine.


Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Performace Mode Help

Here is a picture of the boat and a couple engine pictures.



Let me know if you guys see anything that is not right, that you can see.

Bryan

 

[John_S]

Re: Performace Mode Help

I can't make out allot in the pictures, but you do have the fuel pump vent line. Make sure it is connected to carb and fuel pump. I couldn't make out the distributer or adv modules in either engine picture. I would think it would be a Thunderbolt IV.

Look closely at intake, timing cover, water pump interfaces. You can usually tell if someone has been in the motor before. Paint missing, blue rtv seeping out, etc.

Also look for the Mercruiser serial number. It should be down by the starter. If it is a Merc, I would start to think it is stock, and the PO was just assuming a marine engine has steel crank and forged rods.