after pull the heads won't start

[krisnowicki]

Well you guys always have the right answers so here we go see if you can help me figure this one out.
I posted a while ago after a repower I had some water in the oil pan and milky oil. I immeditely pulled the plugs and got all the water out of the cylinders and pulled the drain plug from the oil pan and drianed everything out.. Since then I pulled both heads to check the sit.
I found the number 5 had a melted plug due to what i think was a slipping distributor and bad timing. There was rust stains going down the brand new manidolds where the risers meet and so i pulled it apart and with your help Don S I found out i had the wrong gaskets. So.... I replaced both head gaskets cleaned all the water out of the cylinders... there is no rust on the walls. I tourque the heads down according t spec and with the appropriate #'s. I used a 1/2 inch torque wrench. I bolted the manifolds exhaust and intake down using new and correct gaskets. I comp tested cylinders and i am getting 120ish + on all ...
NOW. I have a new coil, plugs(gapped right .060), wires, cap and rotor, on a thrunderbolt igniton system. after spinning the engine with no plugs for oil pressure. I put my finger over #1 when it blew air out I put the plugs and distributor in and point it to 1 and nothing.... I spray starting fluid and nothing.
What am I missing I have fire gas and time but nothing... I also disconnected the shift interupt to eliminate that... any help would be appreciated.
pulled the #1
Also, just to be sure i am at #1 TDC what would the valves be doing on that cylinder at that time ?
this is a 350 vortec with thunderbolt ignition... thanks again

 

[wncrjb]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

If #1 is at TDC on COMPRESSION STROKE, both valves will be closed....

wncrjb

 

[krisnowicki]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

exactly that is where I am ...

 

[Don S]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

I can see a whole lot of places where you could have gone bad.
First questions.
Have you ever done this before?
Did you have any kind of a manual?

Engine questions.
Do you have spark?
Do you have fuel squirting out of the carb if you pump the throttle?

Did you have the crankshaft at #1 TDC [ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE] when you set the distributor down in the hole.
If so, did the rotor point at #1 Spark plug wire on the distributor cap?
While cranking, did you try turning the distributor either direction?
Do you have the firing order correct and do you know the numbering system on and firing order for a Chevy SB?

These may be some very basic questions, but without that info, who knows what to suggest.

PLEASE, answer all of the above questions.

 

[krisnowicki]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

I can see a whole lot of places where you could have gone bad.
First questions.
Have you ever done this before?
yes on cars tons of times
Did you have any kind of a manual?
seloc online one i bought a while ago...
Engine questions.
Do you have spark?
yes blue and hot
Do you have fuel squirting out of the carb if you pump the throttle?
yes
Did you have the crankshaft at #1 TDC [ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE] when you set the distributor down in the hole.
yes it was, using the finger trick
If so, did the rotor point at #1 Spark plug wire on the distributor cap?
Number 1
While cranking, did you try turning the distributor either direction?
i did both directions with no results not even a back fire...
Do you have the firing order correct and do you know the numbering system on and firing order for a Chevy SB?

yes it is imprinted on my block
18436572
These may be some very basic questions, but without that info, who knows what to suggest.

wouldn't the engine at least back fire if the timing was close?

 

[Don S]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

wouldn't the engine at least back fire if the timing was close?

Depends on where it's at, maybe not.
Especially not if there is no spark.

Please just answer the questions, it will sure narrow down the search for possibilities.
Maybe turn this into a 20 reply thread instead of 200.

 

[krisnowicki]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

i did read the quoted area

 

[Don S]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

Do a compression test and see what you have.

Compression Test

 

[krisnowicki]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

120ish give or take 5 on all

 

[JustJason]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

make a mark with white out the best you can opposite the factory timing mark on the balancer. Hook up your timing light to number 1 and shoot it while cranking. Is it closer to the factory mark or to your mark? wouldn't be surprised if your 180 out. Get #1 correct first then double/triple check your firing order.

 

[Don S]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

If you have compression, and fuel, and spark, then 99% chance the spark is not happening at the right time.
Your mission, should you accept it, is to go over the ignition system again.
I have run up against this before myself, and I know how to do it. But when checking my own work I always miss the same thing. So try this.
Pull all the plug wires off the cap (you can leave them hooked to the spark plug) Then take the cap off the distributor. Now, remove the distributor.
Go to the helm and crank the engine a couple of seconds.
Now, go put it all together again. Bet it works.

 

[JustJason]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

1 by 1.... slow and steady gets it right the first time.... thank god where not workin on V12's here...

 

[krisnowicki]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

If you have compression, and fuel, and spark, then 99% chance the spark is not happening at the right time.
Your mission, should you accept it, is to go over the ignition system again.
I have run up against this before myself, and I know how to do it. But when checking my own work I always miss the same thing. So try this.
Pull all the plug wires off the cap (you can leave them hooked to the spark plug) Then take the cap off the distributor. Now, remove the distributor.
Go to the helm and crank the engine a couple of seconds.
Now, go put it all together again. Bet it works.

I accept will post results tommorrow

 

[MikDee]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

IMO, the Distributor is 180* out. Just remember, TDC on the balancer means Cyl #1, & Cyl #6, are always both at TDC at the same time, your camshaft determines which one is ready to fire, and it takes 2 revolutions of the Crankshaft to make one complete revolution of the camshaft, one firing cycle, so once you have determined which Cyl is set to fire at that time, #1, or #6,? drop you're distributor in with the rotor pointing to that cylinder.

Finding out which is ready to fire, is another story, personally I don't like the finger method, it never seems to work for me? I like to look at the valves physically myself to make sure. Aside from that I recently had this situation come up on another forum, and my latest theory is, get a piece of rubber hose like the bottom section of a compression gauge (or any hose that fits snug in the spark plug hole), and with the engine on TDC, blow into the hose, first on Cyl #1, then on Cyl #6, and there should be more resistance on the cylinder with the valves closed, so you'll know that's the one ready to fire. Just so you know, this is my theory, I haven't tried it out yet, so I don't know if it works, but it does seem logical, and easy enough to get at, and do. If you decide to try this let me know if it works?

 

[JustJason]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

i'm a big fan of the old screwdriver down the plug hole... or a metal coathanger... its real easy to feel while your slowly rotating the engine by hand to get numero uno up to tdc... and it beats pulling a valve cover.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

Do you have spark?

this needs to be answered. I don't see an answer to this question Don asked about 8 times.

try plugging the lanyard in?

 

[krisnowicki]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

blue and hot like i said above...

 

[John_S]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

I looked in Merc Service manual 31 for late model vortecs.

The MPIs use:
Spark plug type AC Platinum (AC 41-932)
Spark plug gap 0.060 in (1.52 mm)

The carbed use:
Spark plug type AC Platinum (ACMR43LTS)
Spark plug gap 0.045 in. (1.1 mm)

I got the impression you have carbed, but it wasn't stated. (OK saw your imbedded response - you do have carb) Looks like bad info from your Selec manual.


The 120psi seems a little low for a new engine. I put on new vortec heads last year on a used engine, and was getting consistant 170psi numbers. What compression test procedure and static valve adj method did you use?

 

[MikDee]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

i'm a big fan of the old screwdriver down the plug hole... or a metal coathanger... its real easy to feel while your slowly rotating the engine by hand to get numero uno up to tdc... and it beats pulling a valve cover.

Ok, been there, done that, but how do you know if the cam is set to fire, #1, or #6,? They're both at TDC at the same time?

 

[Bondo]

Re: after pull the heads won't start

i'm a big fan of the old screwdriver down the plug hole... or a metal coathanger... its real easy to feel while your slowly rotating the engine by hand to get numero uno up to tdc... and it beats pulling a valve cover.

Ayuh,.......

And you're Still at 50/ 50 Odds that it'll be Out 180? Out of time......