86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Two86OMCs

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Oct 9, 2007
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The boat is a 1986 Wellcraft Elan with a 4 barrel 4.3L omc V6 and cobra outdrive. I bought it from my dad's neighbor for 500 bucks, he claimed it ran and that everything worked fine. We started it up and sure enough it sounded great, drained the oil in the lower unit and there was barely a pinch of water and the oil was fine looking. We took it out for this past weekend and after many stalls going into gear we finally get it moving. There was a bit of vibration when it was in forward and it made a very faint scratching noise. When we finally opened it up the boat went to about 3k rpms and the front of the boat reared up but never plained out and just held about 10mph. I figured the engine was misfiring but we tried again and were able to get it on plane with my two passengers on the bow. It got up to maybe 30mph or so for about 30 seconds and then suddenly just cut off, didn't stall and slow but suddenly "clunked" dead. Sounded like we had locked it up, however we got it started again and limped back to the dock, about 20 feet away from the dock there was a very loud grinding/clunking sound and the engine cut sharply again. The engine still turns over but as soon as it fires it makes all these clunking and grinding sounds and cuts. If it were the engine making these sounds I would have to think that it wouldn't even turn over, we had good oil pressure the entire time and the oil pressure still comes up as soon as it fires. But now for the realizations.

I checked the shift cable after getting on this website and realize that it is black, so good chance damage has been done to the gears through this. The other thing I did notice however is that the fin on the bottom of the out drive was bent to the left by about 1.5 inches to 2 inches. It also came with a brand spanking new aluminum prop which had never seen the water, weird considering this boat came stock with a nice stainless steel prop. After further inspection we noticed that the prop doesn't spin on a perfect axis, it does have a very slight wobble. All of these things are an indication that this boat hit something that ruined the prop, bent the fin on the outdrive, and bent the shaft causing it to wobble. If this boat hit something like a log or a rock while it was under power, what exactly would be damaged in the outdrive? Could it possibly have caused whatever damage I am hearing when the engine starts up? I am pretty mechanically inclined so I'm going to pull the transom this weekend and see if its anything obvious.
 

blueoval1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 3, 2007
Messages
131
Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Sounds like you got definate drive problems!
Did you follow the proper procedure for refilling the drive with oil? If not , you fried the upper gears at the very least. Pull the top cover from the drive and inspect the gears.
Does sound like the drive came in contact with something. Lower prop shaft is bent to the degree that you can see the play , it's shot too.
 

thrasher

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May 23, 2007
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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Before you replace the drive, try removing it (6 nuts) and start the engine for a very short time and see if it still makes any strange noises. If it does then the problem is in the engine, if it's quiet then the outdrive is your problem. When you remove the outdrive try and find a way to connect/wedge the hose pipe in the water feed pipe so the engine is still receiving cooling water when you start it. If you can't get a water feed don't run the engine for more than 15 to 20 seconds or it will start to overheat and do damage. This test should only need a very short startup based on your description to see if the noise is coming from the engine or the disconnected outdrive.

Gary
 

Two86OMCs

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Oct 9, 2007
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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

I just did what I do on my other OMC for the drive oil, drained it overnight with both the top and bottom plugs removed, refilled it with one of those pump things from the bottom until oil came out of the top, then replaced the screws. Thats what I've done on the other OMC for years and its still working great. I am pulling the outdrive this weekend so I'll do the startup test and let you know what I find, I have a feeling something on the back of that outdrive isn't going to look too good.
 

skeat

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Oct 1, 2007
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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

The drive is supposed to be filled from the middle hole with the top screw removed. You have to keep checking the level until it reads full. Then you cn run it shortly and check again just to make sure. Drives are expensive, checking is not. Filling from the bottom can trap air and give false readings. Although with the other symptoms your are describing it sounds like the drive has been damaged.
 

imported_TheMan

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Oct 19, 2006
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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

I don't have an OMC, but filling from the bottom presents the LEAST chance of entrapping error. It would seem you filled it correctly.

On the other hand, someone before you may have not filled it correctly, causing the upper gears to run without lube. You could have possibly tossed a tooth in your uppers leading to the grinding/clunking noise. Like you noted, seems as though it was damaged. You could have damage to the u-joints or the drive shaft or several other components the whole way down depending on the severity of the hit. After you check it out you may need a new drive.. Check out SEI.
 

akwalker

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Jul 28, 2006
Messages
153
Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

As skeat said, the Cobra is filled with the bottom screw in, the top screw (the one with the dipstick) laying in (not threaded) the top hole. You then fill from the center plug until it reaches the bottom of the dipstick.
 

blueoval1

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Jun 3, 2007
Messages
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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

I second that akwalker! People constantly fill the Cobra drives wrong. Two86OMCs , Is your other OMC drive a Cobra? Or is it the earlier stringer style? They are filled differently.It's easier in my opinion to pull the top cover and do an inspection of the upper gears for damage than to pull the drive. Either way , if there is that much runout of the prop shaft , the drive needs desperate attention.
Get yourself a factory service manual , it'll save you alot of grief.
Wish you luck two86OMCs! I have been in the same shoes!
Let us know what you find.
 

marunr

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Jul 11, 2004
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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

I don't have an OMC, but filling from the bottom presents the LEAST chance of entrapping error. It would seem you filled it correctly.

That is incorrect on a Cobra drive.
 

Two86OMCs

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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Ok, just to clear up this issue you guys were right, I didn't fill the drive all the way. However the 2 minutes of running it like this shouldn't have caused catastrophic failure like it did. Apparently the guy who owned it before me was not filling it correctly either, which means it may have been run for extended periods of time with low oil. The correct way to fill the cobra drive is to fill it from the bottom with the middle screw unscrewed, until the oil level reaches the middle hole. At this point you put the bottom screw back in and then continue filling from the middle screw until the dipstic reads full. This way you are always filling from the bottom most hole to reduce the chance of bubbles. Filling the entire drive from the middle hole is wrong for those of you who thought that was the correct way to do it.
 

blueoval1

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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Two86OMCs ,
I guess your going to fill it as you want. Read the factory service manual!
Been filling three different cobra drives from the middle hole as per Skeat and the Factory Manual states for the last 5 years now with no failure. If you want to go thru the same thing again , fill it from the bottom!
Enough said and good luck!

As usual this is my opinion and only my opinion.
 

marunr

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jul 11, 2004
Messages
225
Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

The correct way to fill the cobra drive is to fill it from the bottom with the middle screw unscrewed, until the oil level reaches the middle hole. At this point you put the bottom screw back in and then continue filling from the middle screw until the dipstic reads full. This way you are always filling from the bottom most hole to reduce the chance of bubbles. Filling the entire drive from the middle hole is wrong for those of you who thought that was the correct way to do it.

What manual told you this? My manual says fill from the middle hole, and I've been doing it that way for 20 years, since I bought it new.
 

Boatin Bob

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Sep 24, 2001
Messages
1,858
Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Have to agree with everyone who fills from the middle, I've had 5 Cobra's since 1991 and never had an issue with trapped air. I currently have a pair of 460's that each hold 108 oz. By watching the oil left in the 120 oz jug I know that I've filled them.

ps...here is an excerpt from Stuart Hasting's website which most of us Cobra owners are familar with....


When filling the Cobra with gear lube, use the middle fill plug, as shown in the Owners' Manual. Do not fill through the (bottom) drain plug! If you fill from the wrong port, you will probably trap a big bubble of air inside the vertical drive, and that bubble will eventually rise to the top. When it does, the upper gearcase gears will run dry, and self-destruct. As they say in the computer biz, "RTFM."
 

Two86OMCs

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Oct 9, 2007
Messages
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Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

<http://www.sterndrive.info/id270.html>

A technician I talked to over the phone told me to fill it from the bottom first then from the middle, and if you copy and paste the link above it also explains that you fill from the bottom till it gets to the middle then start filling from the middle till its full. It makes sense, to reduce the chance of getting an air bubble you would always want to fill from the bottom up.

ANYWAYSSS!!!... I pulled the drive this weekend, it appears that the scratching sound was the sound of the bearing in front of the water pump going bad on the shaft that comes from the engine into the outdrive. Not the large one behind the upper gear but the other one. It must have completely blew up when pulling up to the dock, spilling out all 15 or so of the rollers that are inside it. They competely destroyed the upper gears. Metal shavings everywhere which means that even the lower unit is probably not salvageable, not that I wouldn't have had to replace it anyway because the prop shaft is bent. Engine still runs great however, someone even did the electric ignition conversion on it...or its got a newer motor. Were searching boat junk yards in the Washington DC area and my uncle is up in Jersey looking around New York for one as well. No money to rebuild the damn thing as of now. Anyone know of any good boat grave yards in the DC/chesapeake area that might have an old OMC Cobra drive for a 4.3L V6? What is the best price I could get to rebuild the top and bottom of an outdrive??? Best I've seen is around $2400 for a rebuilt one.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Howdy,

There are a lot of people that will tell you to fill it from the bottom to the middle THEN fill it from the middle to the top.

My OMC service manual says to do it from the middle period.

I know that it's possible to trap air in the drive filling it wrong (from the bottom all the way) because when a Four Winns dealer did it to mine several years ago(when my brother owned it) , it made it almost halfway around the lake (just a few min) before the upper bearings/gears froze when the trapped air finally made it to the top!

They knew they screwed up and promptly replaced the drive with a rebuilt one.

Doing it from from the bottom to the middle, AND THEN from the middle port to the top probably works just fine.

It's not how the manual says to do it. So I wouldn't try it....... I'm all about following manufacturers recommendations.


I still have the 87 Cobra drive. It's a 1.41:1 model that went behind the wonderful 460 I removed (that's going in a friends truck soon!)

I wish you lived in the NW you could come over and have a look!

I've seen used drives on ebay for a lot less than $2400. You really don't know what you're getting from there if it's used though!


Regards,



Rick
 

metro3pilot

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
40
Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

Speaking from experience ...

it only takes a few minutes to burn the upper on a cobra .... so as far as it consistently being run low on lube, probably not

your lower is probably still good though .....
 

scorpion230

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Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
11
Re: 86 4.3 OMC with serious grinding/clunking

O.K. People its time to address this problem that we are having with how to properly fill an OMC.
First off to let you know I am a certified technician so dont be scared when I go against what your manual says.
If you serrvice your drive from the center hole while leaving your bottom plug in YOU WILL HAVE A HUGE CAVITY OF AIR!!!!! at the bottom of your drive.

Now if you remove the center plug unthread the dipstick while servicing from the bottom until the gear oil reaches the Vent hole (center hole) and stop pmping as soon as oil comes out, Screw in the vent plug and your dipstick before you remove the your pump line and screw in you plug, then you can check you gear oil level using your dipstick.
Sound good?
 
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