Champion or NGK

[Delta 1]

Been reading through some of the threads and I'm just curious who has had better luck or smoother running Force motors with which plugs. I'm running a Force 125 with Champs right now (because that's what the old plugs were). Thanks in advance for replies.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Champion or NGK

Yes the original specs call for Champion plugs, but then again I think they were a staple of Chrysler corp. anyway, all Chrysler vehicles for years.

 

[artic-z]

Re: Champion or NGK

iv used NGK for everything, from four wheelers to my artic-z28 camaro i raced at the drags weekly and never had a problem. and am currently running ngk's on my boat put about 4-7 hours of runtime on them without a problem but then again i change my oil in my car at about every 2,500 miles and change my plugs about every 2-4 outings. so i rarely have failures on my parts. i ususally just buy 2 dozen of everything at a time.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Champion or NGK

Anyway, I eventually got around to changing the plugs to NGK B7HS and presto, my problem was gone.


http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=218273

 

[Delta 1]

Re: Champion or NGK

Stopped at the local marina today, they had NGK but were BUHXW-1, mine cross to a BUHX, is the W-1 a hotter temp? I don't need to go hotter, also the local Advance Auto has the correct cross in Autolite, anybody tried them? Not looking to fix any problems, just wondering what everybody else is using.

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Champion or NGK

no hidden secrets with spark plugs. they're not overly expensive so just pick some up and try them and draw your own conclusion. I have used them all, and to be honest with you, have not seen a lick of difference between any of them as far as performance is concerned. Where there is a difference, however, is in the longevity of the plug. Certain additives in today's fuel will attach themselves to the electrode of the plug. They will look like little specks or spots. These specks will glow under combustion temperatures and can cause pre-ignition. The older the plug the worse it will get. This is why you have platinum plugs and so on to try and eliminate these deposits because they don't "stick" to platinum as well. It still happens though and the process starts right off the bat. Most noticable in higher compression engines. Whatever plug you choose, change frequently and you will never have an issue. Problem with some people is they take out an old used spark plug and put in some fancy new one and swear that it's the best plug on the market. Could it be that they were just old enough to have these deposits creating pre-ignition and therefore a lack of power?

 

[Delta 1]

Re: Champion or NGK

If not for nothing I just ordered my NGK's from Advance, they'll have them tomorrow morning and at $1.98 they were 50 cents cheaper than the Autolite. I forget what I paid for the Champs 3 years ago. We'll see if it makes "The Force" stronger!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Champion or NGK

I tried them all also. Don't care for the Autolite--no real reason, they just don't "look" right in the engine. NGK seem to idle just a tad better in my 140 Chrysler. But really, I've seen no major difference.

---SUPPOSEDLY---Splitfire makes a plug for Force. But I don't trust a bent electrode plug in the engine so I never even considered them.

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Champion or NGK

Honestly, Splitfire is a joke. Spark and electricity is lazy and ALWAYS goes to the nearest point of ground. If anyone out there thinks that split electrode grounds will give you a split spark, I hate to be the one to rain on your parade. The only advantage it really gives you is that as the electrode wears from arcing on one side it switches back and forth to wear more evenly. Funny thing is, if your electrode is worn down to the point of the gap getting wider, they needed to be replaced anyway for the reason in the thread I posted earlier. And one more thing, there is no such thing as "winning a U.S. Patent" as Splitfire claims. You apply for it.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Champion or NGK

Honestly, Splitfire is a joke. Spark and electricity is lazy and ALWAYS goes to the nearest point of ground. If anyone out there thinks that split electrode grounds will give you a split spark, I hate to be the one to rain on your parade. The only advantage it really gives you is that as the electrode wears from arcing on one side it switches back and forth to wear more evenly. Funny thing is, if your electrode is worn down to the point of the gap getting wider, they needed to be replaced anyway for the reason in the thread I posted earlier. And one more thing, there is no such thing as "winning a U.S. Patent" as Splitfire claims. You apply for it.

Remember them on the Pro Stock cars in NHRA. They were sued for false advertising, had to stop the BS, but they can still sell'em I guess..pure snake oil
(Some editing has been done here...read the response wrong)
... EVERY spark comes off the CENTER of the plug.. EVERY spark takes a few microns of metal away..(think welding), and the whatever exotic metal is in the middle, thats what counts..look some old worn plugs..that middle nice shiny square flat top center, is now a rounded blob... not the ground prongs..

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Champion or NGK

...spark plug choice aside for a second.
Question:
How often should you change the spark plug set on one of these two strokes? (mines a 90'/90hp Force)
I changed mine at the beginning of the season and not touched them since. However they may be due? I've been out, at recent count, 25 times now on the boat. It still runs great however its a little harder starting than it was when I first put them in.

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Champion or NGK

Scatty, If you really read what I said, you would realize you more or less repeated what I said just in different words. SPARKS TO NEAREST POINT OF GROUND. The spark does not split. Two ground electrodes gives the plugs electrode a chance to wear more evenly and less chance of fouling out. The bosch plus 2 and plus 4 plugs and the three ground plugs that use to be in mazda rx7's are perfect examples of this. And I do know what I'm talking about. These are things that are taught in school when I went to WyoTech and they are taught from representitives that work for the manufacturers.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Champion or NGK

Scatty, If you really read what I said, you would realize you more or less repeated what I said just in different words. SPARKS TO NEAREST POINT OF GROUND. The spark does not split. Two ground electrodes gives the plugs electrode a chance to wear more evenly and less chance of fouling out. The bosch plus 2 and plus 4 plugs and the three ground plugs that use to be in mazda rx7's are perfect examples of this. And I do know what I'm talking about. These are things that are taught in school when I went to WyoTech and they are taught from representitives that work for the manufacturers.

Whoops, long day..somehow my brain stuffed a "ground" in front of electrode, as 90% of people know no much of how a plug works...your right...

 

[bowhuntrrl]

Re: Champion or NGK

I prefer Champions in a Force. I have had horrible luck in the past with NGK plugs across the board, in motorcycles, snowmobiles, outboards, and cars.

As far as the Splitfire thing, they do have the advantage of unshrouding the spark. The closer to the center of the combustion chamber that the spark starts, the more efficient the combustion will be. Back in the '70s when I used to race (drags), we had this little trick of bending the electrode so that the center electrode is lined up with the edge of the side electrode. Maybe it's just a state of mind, but the cars always seemed to run better that way. The new Bosch Platinum multi electrode plugs work with the same principle, as do the E3 plugs. I still do it, it can't hurt anything and maybe it helps !!!

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Champion or NGK

Scatty, no harm no fowl.
Bowhuntrrl, you are right, that is one of the main purposes of the spark plugs that "unshroud" the electrode so the spark is exposed to the combustion chamber more. Hence the reason for the surface gap plugs also. Only problem with this technology, if the gap gets too wide or the spark quality is low the compression of the engine in itself can actually "blow" the spark out. Most noticed on high compression racing engines or force inducted engines such as turbo or supercharged application. This will happen with any spark plug though and is the reason alot of people assume that just because they see spark present, it doesn't mean that it is a good spark to ignite fuel/air under compression.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Champion or NGK

Also it is interesting to note here, that the spark always travels from the Negative, to the Positive pole, so actually the spark travels from the side electrode (normally ground) to the center electrode (positive), unless your system is actually Positive gound .

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Champion or NGK

MikDee, I think you might have your info backwards. Not sure about positive ground where spark is used I only have experience with positive ground diesal systems so no spark to deal with there, but check out this link.http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system2.htm

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Champion or NGK

I forget my high school physics, But I think I remember that voltage travels one direction and electron flow is the opposite--Don't jump on me if I'm wrong--

But anyway, that's the reason all gasoline spark ignited engines are now negative ground. They found out early in the game that negative ground gives a hotter and more reliable spark.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Champion or NGK

...ok, I'll try one more time.
How often should you replace the spark plugs on a two stroke outboard?
(Force engine: 90'/90hp). I have about 25 outings on my boat this summer and changed them at the beginning of the season...am I due?
It still runs really well but its a little harder to start than it was at the beginning of the season.
Any takers on this feedback request?

 

[Delta 1]

Re: Champion or NGK

WOW... ask a simple spark plug question and get a physics lesson! Just kidding guys. I'm not new to this stuff, been a mechanic 20+ years, 15 in a Ford dealership doing driveability as a lead tech and I swear those Fix Or Repair Dailys needed Motocraft plugs... they hated Champs. Hey Bigprairie... I only get out about 8-10 times a season and it's usaully on the local smaller lake so I'm sure my plugs last a little longer than most. I would think one to two changes a season depending on how you use her, fishing, skiing, etc...