New crackdown on U.S. border

[Plainsman]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Some more good reading taken from the 2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants

Letter to Senator Wayne Allard

"..... CRIME

95 % of Warrants in LOS ANGELES are for ILLEGAL ALIENS

83 % of Warrants for MURDER in Phoenix Arizona are FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS

86 % of Warrants for MURDER in Albuquerque New Mexico are for ILLEGAL ALIENS

75 % of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, Albuquerque are ILLEGAL ALIENS

24.9 % OF ALL INMATES in California detention centers are Mexican Nationals here ILLEGALLY ....."

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Smite them!......​

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

The notion that all illegals are a drain on the economy is pure fantasy. Sure, some of them are, but are they a majority? The notion that all illegals are hired at below minimums and pay no taxes is also pure fantasy. There are some, but how many compared to the productive, tax paying ones? The big majority of the ones I know are paid a decent wage, use no welfare benefits and pay taxes. Yes, I want them arrested and deported unless those liberal jerks in Congress get their heads out of their butts and deal with reality.

The majority of them aren't a huge drain national economy but they certainly are enough on the State level. Sure Popi works real hard, but either sends 80% of his check back home or has his 5 children getting special education and free lunches at school.
They are very networked people and there are a lot of them.
That same desire to work hard in the fields, is the same desire to work hard at getting from the system.
Then there are the ones that work hard at illegal jobs.
Thirty percent of the California inmates are illegal immigrants, probably very similar in Texas.

My question is, are you willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater? If you think there is no baby you are kidding yourselves.

Absolutely 100%, I'm always up for taking the right, moral and lawful path even when it is more difficult and let the challenges fall where they may.

One of the things that sometimes makes me embarrassed to be conservative is the conservative compulsion to slap labels on people and paint them all with the brush that fits only the worst of them.

It might appear to be this way from the "conseravtives" on DC or the talking heads they idolise. But most conservatives on iboats don't post on DC political threads and listen to FM on their commute.

 

[treedancer]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Get them legal after you check them out to make sure they are not felons. Get them on the books paying into the system like the rest of us peons.

 

[JB]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Ahhh, now I see it!!

Treedancer actually agrees with our President.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

I love how a conservative is defined not by his words, but the words of others. I don't idolize anyone, except maybe William F. Buckley. And he is not usually good for a sound bite or a quote.

As for the glass is half full approach. Many of our Illegal immigrants, once you take into account they have broken our laws to get into this country, are hard working, family oriented, god fearing, people with a separate but not all together different culture. If you had to pick a group of people to be overrun by, mexican/central americans wouldn't be my last choice, more like the first or second. Can you imagine if they were Sudaneese, or Iranians, or even worse french?

But dealing in the reality of the moment, we would welcome "guest workers" if that was what they were. Guests don't break into your home, they are invited. As the host, we can outline what is acceptable and what is not. I don't usually let my guests rifle thru my checkbook or take money from my change jar, or allow them to demand softer pillows or the king size bed. I wouldn't let them bring 20-30 family members along, just the ones I agreed to. I would be upset if they demanded the back 1/3 of my yard for their own. I wouldn't allow them to assist in family decisions (voting) as it is my family. I would expect that they would eventually leave after their visit. I would expect them to respect my lifestyle and timetables. I get up at 5am. I am not changing. If one had a baby while in my graces, it wouldn't be my child. And if I came home and found a stranger digging around in my refrigerator taking my food, or in my safe taking my money, I wouldn't take the time to ask him how the government should be helping them.

Breaking into one's home or invading their sovergnty isn't really that different. It only figures in when you try to make it "someone" elses problem. Well our liberal largesse has made it everyone's problem. And to watch a bunch of politicians courting their vote, well I just get sick to my stomach.

 

[treedancer]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Quote JB


Ahhh, now I see it!!

Treedancer actually agrees with our President.


My weekend of penance is almost over.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

"How do you pay taxes without a GENUINE Social Security Card?"

You buy. . . anything. Sales tax, gas tax, tobacco tax, liquor tax, etc. etc.

If you make less than about $30K you probably don't pay any income tax whether you have the SS card or not.

Exactly RIGHT!! (The FICA tax is from the first dollar.) JB: you really know an incredible amount of details about a lot of things! JR

 

[12Footer]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Get them legal after you check them out to make sure they are not felons. Get them on the books paying into the system like the rest of us peons

And I agree with treedancer. Have mercy upon us all, but I agree with him.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

What abiut the half your employer matches? You don't get that back on your tax return.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Nobody, but nobody wants to solve this problem. They all seem to want to make noise, and score political points, but they don't want to solve it, as really solving it would have dire consequences.


There are 10 million (or however many) illegals here because there are jobs for them to do. There is no way to hold employers accountable now for giving them jobs, since a SS card, or any other form of ID is available on the street for cheap.

We must have a non-tamperable, easily verified system of checking a person's status. Can you imagine a bank with an ATM card being confused whether the holder had a real account or not?

The reason nobody wants to solve it is while we don't like the idea there are so many illegals here, yet most people understand the economy would be crippled if we actually did something about it.

This is probably the one area I tend to agree with the Pres in principle at least. We need a sane immigration policy and somehow to create a path for those already here to legalize them--That is not politically popular, of course, but the alternative is economically devastating, and no one really wants that, despite how they posture.

I guess I somewhat agree with PW2 here, (kinda rare). I would pick one bone with you, PW2: many people do want to solve this massive problem, ("nobody but nobody" is a false statement: on it's face, I guess so ya can deny credit to one very important person ya don't like), President Bush is and has used vast amounts of his scarce political capital to try to SOLVE this, THE DEMS n' unfortunately many very short sighted Republicans in Congress ARE THE PROBLEM HERE. Respectfully JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

". . . you said there is not a drain due to the illegals?"

No, that is not what I said. What I said was,

"The notion that all illegals are a drain on the economy is pure fantasy. Sure, some of them are, but are they a majority? The notion that all illegals are hired at below minimums and pay no taxes is also pure fantasy. There are some, but how many compared to the productive, tax paying ones? The big majority of the ones I know are paid a decent wage, use no welfare benefits and pay taxes. Yes, I want them arrested and deported unless those liberal jerks in Congress get their heads out of their butts and deal with reality."

There you go with the "one negative brush fits all" thing again.

Spot on JB!

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Some more good reading taken from the 2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants

Letter to Senator Wayne Allard

"..... CRIME

95 % of Warrants in LOS ANGELES are for ILLEGAL ALIENS

83 % of Warrants for MURDER in Phoenix Arizona are FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS

86 % of Warrants for MURDER in Albuquerque New Mexico are for ILLEGAL ALIENS

75 % of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, Albuquerque are ILLEGAL ALIENS

24.9 % OF ALL INMATES in California detention centers are Mexican Nationals here ILLEGALLY ....."

The bad ones are clearly a BIG PROBLEM! JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

I love how a conservative is defined not by his words, but the words of others. I don't idolize anyone, except maybe William F. Buckley. And he is not usually good for a sound bite or a quote.

As for the glass is half full approach. Many of our Illegal immigrants, once you take into account they have broken our laws to get into this country, are hard working, family oriented, god fearing, people with a separate but not all together different culture. If you had to pick a group of people to be overrun by, mexican/central americans wouldn't be my last choice, more like the first or second. Can you imagine if they were Sudaneese, or Iranians, or even worse french?

But dealing in the reality of the moment, we would welcome "guest workers" if that was what they were. Guests don't break into your home, they are invited. As the host, we can outline what is acceptable and what is not. I don't usually let my guests rifle thru my checkbook or take money from my change jar, or allow them to demand softer pillows or the king size bed. I wouldn't let them bring 20-30 family members along, just the ones I agreed to. I would be upset if they demanded the back 1/3 of my yard for their own. I wouldn't allow them to assist in family decisions (voting) as it is my family. I would expect that they would eventually leave after their visit. I would expect them to respect my lifestyle and timetables. I get up at 5am. I am not changing. If one had a baby while in my graces, it wouldn't be my child. And if I came home and found a stranger digging around in my refrigerator taking my food, or in my safe taking my money, I wouldn't take the time to ask him how the government should be helping them.

Breaking into one's home or invading their sovergnty isn't really that different. It only figures in when you try to make it "someone" elses problem. Well our liberal largesse has made it everyone's problem. And to watch a bunch of politicians courting their vote, well I just get sick to my stomach.

Pointer: You have a way with words. Serious as a heart attack but I almost spit me coffee all over me keyboard several times!! VERY GOOD, (wish I could find something to pick on) fer sport: but I can't!! JR

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

OK, I'll soften my stance a little.....
How about if you are an illegal immigrant & you are convicted of a felony that you are smited?......
That should make it a bit more palatable, IMHO.....​

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

". . . you said there is not a drain due to the illegals?"

No, that is not what I said. What I said was,

"The notion that all illegals are a drain on the economy is pure fantasy. Sure, some of them are, but are they a majority? The notion that all illegals are hired at below minimums and pay no taxes is also pure fantasy. There are some, but how many compared to the productive, tax paying ones? The big majority of the ones I know are paid a decent wage, use no welfare benefits and pay taxes. Yes, I want them arrested and deported unless those liberal jerks in Congress get their heads out of their butts and deal with reality."

There you go with the "one negative brush fits all" thing again.

Any that are on this soil that makes any monetaries is the majority isn't it?The majority is not paying all the deductions that I have to pay to the IRS. This also is against the law. If I didn't pay my income tax, they would take what I own or lock me up. This is the part that pulls my chain. So what if they are good workers. If they do make 30K a year, they get all of it, I would have taken home about 24K of the same amount. If they want to work, fine, just let them pay what the rest of us pay no matter how much they earn.

The small amount of criminals, health care seekers, and american attorneys, put a strain on our system thoughout the states.

Sorry if I'm a negative brush,,,,,,,,guess I could at least help paint the fence.

 

[ricksrster]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Illegal is the key word. Just by being an illegal alien they are criminals period.
Main Entry: 1il?le?gal
Pronunciation: (")i(l)-'lE-g&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal
: not according to or authorized by law : [SIZE=-1]UNLAWFUL[/SIZE], [SIZE=-1]ILLICIT[/SIZE]; also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)
Main Entry: 2illegal
Function: noun
: an illegal immigrant

 

[JB]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

SS said, "If they do make 30K a year, they get all of it, I would have taken home about 24K of the same amount."

C'mon, SS. That is hogwash and you know it. With all of your deductions I doubt that you would pay a dime on a gross income of $30K. Even on a net income of $30K you wouldn't pay over 15%, which would leave you $24.5K of all over the first $30, or a net of $54.5K of a gross of $60K.

On the other hand, our sample illegal pays as much as you do in sales, gas, tobacco and liquor taxes. Also, many of them pay payroll deducted income tax on bogus SS#s which they never get a chance to recover as refunds. That means they are probably paying more income tax than many low income legals.

Now, understand, gentlemen, I favor what our government is doing. . .finally. I set out here to point out the downside. It is a very bad solution to the realities of the situation, but because of those RATZAKRATZA scum in Congress it is the only solution available.

 

[ricksrster]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

You definitely pay taxes on $30K. if you are not paid under the table.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

 

[JB]

Re: New crackdown on U.S. border

Taxable income, Rickrster, is net income. . . what's left AFTER deductions. Should that be $30K, as I said above, the tax would be approximately what I said above, according to the IRS chart.

If a married guy with kids, insurance, medical bills and a home mortgage doesn't have enough deductions to bring his income from $30K gross to $0K taxable he isn't paying attention.

If our sample illegal earned $30K and couldn't file for refund, he actually PAID the approximate $4K in withholding tax.

When that happens, the illegal pays more tax than the low income legal.

Thanks for confirming what I really said by contradicting what you wish I had said.