2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

[briwarr66]

i've got an issue that perhaps someone could help me troubleshoot as at this point i'm not seeing things clearly due to an overheating temper. on the advise of a few knowledgeable friends and a mechanic at my yamaha dealer i installed a fuel water separator; my vst filter was clogged last week and i had to manually clean it as the yamaha dealer i go to had none in stock so i thought it wise to add an additional layer of protection. i installed the water separator this afternoon and made a mental note not to leave the dock until i ran the engine at idle for around 15 minutes, good thing too as after around 10min of running at idle the engine konked out. I was able to restart the engine 3 or 4 times and each time it ran rough staggering a little not its normal self for about 10 secs each time and then died, after about the 4th time she will not start the engine will turn catch for a millisecond and then sputter out. i thought aha i know what i'll do i'll bypass the water separator with a brass union fitting joining the fuel line and this should fix the problem because this was the last thing that was changed with the setup and this appears to be a fuel related issue. i'm not getting of that easy after i did this the engine still will not start, if i put it in neutral and give it 3/4 throttle she'll periodically catch run for a few seconds and then die out. at this point i'm not at a complete loss as i'm going to regroup tonight get my wits about myself and attack again tomorrow but if anyone has any tips or pointers they would be very welcome. this is what i plan on doing tomorrow:

1. take off the fuel filter and dump the contents into a clear container just to ensure that there is no water present
2. change my plugs, not necessary but they need changing anyway
3. change the vst filter

any input is welcome

brian

 

[briwarr66]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

hmm, ok i'll keep posting in hopes of some guidance and if i find the issue and resolve it before any comes i'll post the resolution for some others that my run into this issue, which is frustrating for an eager budding hpdi mechanic. i prefer fixing things myself i like felling of satisfaction and the knoweldge gained during the whole process.

things i did today

1. replaced vst filter
2. hooked the fuel line back up the fuel water separator. pumped the ball and filled up the vst tank, opened bleed nut on the bottom of the tank and watched fuel come out.
3. tried to start no luck she catches for a millisecond then dies
4. disconnected the fuel line from the output side of the filter that the vst tank outputs to turned the key on and gas comes out in a steady stream. hooked back up
5. tested spark which appeared good. bought a cheepie tester at autozone for 7 clams spark was arcing i measured it at about 7/16 gap.

i subscribed to the seloc online manual for the yamaha 150 hpdi my initial thoughts are its not the greatest thing in the word it's clunky to navigate and a little hard to find things but it was easy to get and nice to read in a nice cool air conditioned house after getting a nice sunburn on my back working on this thing. my thoughts are the problem is not the vst or fuel pump so i'm going the move toward the back of the engine and start testing out the injectors (volts and ohm), high pressure fuel pump and regulator, and injector drivers, in hopes of identifying the malcontent i'll post results.

brian

 

[yamamarinetech40]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

Okay, let's back way up....the motor ran fine and you put a water seperating fuel filter on it...I'm sure you put it on the VACUUM side of the fuel bulb between it(bulb) and tank like you should've....what you perfectly described is someone not priming the line/filling the filter with the fuel bulb line disconnected from engine....and that engine should have never been run without a 10 micron fuel/water seperator, did you install the motor? Yamaha dealer?

 

[briwarr66]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

yes, the separator is on the vacuum side of the bulb, after installation the bulb was pumped until it was hard which to me indicated that the separator filter was full of gas and the fuel system was properly primed. when the engine initially died after installing the separator i thought no biggie it has to be the water separator that is the last thing that changed i'll undo the change by joining the fuel line with a brass union fitting and i'm back in business. no dice i did this and she still will not run, that's what makes the origin of this issue so confusing to me how could adding a fuel water separator to a setup cause a problem with fuel delivery system; another possibility is that it could be coincidence and this was going to happen regardless of adding the separator but at this point it does not seem likely.

i purchased this boat back in february the previous owner did not have a separator.

 

[tommays]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

Far from and expert(i just remember a lot of rodbolt posts) but if your low pressure pumps were just working than the new 10 micron filter would put it over the edge

A vacuum test between the fuel tank and motor would revel a restriction in the anti sphion valve or other problems in the fuel line


Tommays

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

ok
remove the airbox, use a squirt can and squirt gas into all 6 shutters.
if the engine now starts we have isolated it to fuel side.
there is a filter between the VST(medium pressure) and the high pressure pump that could be clogged as well. if you remove that filter use the correct clamp on installation. DO NOT USE A STANDARD HOSE CLAMP.
however the high pressure pump can be tested with either a laptop or a rough check with a DVM. I cant remember the exact voltage spec but its something above 3 volts
that engine can run with the high pressure pump drive belt off so unless the HP is clogged I would not suspect it.
the injector driver can be tested with a DVA adapter or a peak reading meter, voltage should be about 85 volts.

 

[briwarr66]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

well it turns out that the problem was indeed fuel related which in retrospect should have been the first area that i concentrated on. on the advise of my fishing partner quint i hooked the engine up to an external 5gal tank and hit the engine with a little ether to have it start and draw gas off this new source. after 2 or 3 iterations hitting it with ether the engine ran but ran rough for about 5-8min and then evened out and ran normal. my guess is that during this 5-8min of running rough it was running off the fuel in the vst and fuel filter. i ran the engine off the external tank for another 20min and she ran perfectly. at this point i needed to know if she would run off the boat tank through the water seperator to determine if the original problem was an anomaly or that the 60 gal in my tank was spoiled; hooked back up to the water separator run for another 30 min and she ran but with a very slight roughness. my plan is to check the filter on the separator frequently for the next few months for debris and water, add some octane boost to the gas in the tank and top it off, and check the tank for any signs of water entering it. now i'm picking my brain trying to determine what the hell happened, was there something in the filter that was sucked into the fuel system that needed to be flushed in order to return the motor to a working state, i'm kind of stumped but happy it's functioning again?

 

[glenlvt]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

When you checked the resistance with the ohm meter at the injectors did the readings match the factory specs?

 

[briwarr66]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

i'm not sure of the factory specs but the resistance on all the injectors were between 5 and 5.5, on key voltage was around the same.

 

[glenlvt]

Re: 2001 150 hpdi starting issue odd beginning

If the water seperator was a Racor was it a 2 or 4 port? If it was a 4 port did you check to make sure the connectors are on the right ports? If the problem is truely fuel related I would suggest getting fuel some where else!