1979 115 fried rings

[Dhadley]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Coking happens to both sides. It's just that usually it starts on the starboard side and therefore it's usually worse on the starboard side. The coking and broken rings don't go by any rules and are equal opportunity demons. Can and do happen to both sides.

Personally I like the idea of rebuilding the powerhead, or having it done, that way you know what ya got. But that's just me.

There's lots of good Marine machine shops around. Stay away from automotive machine shops unless they are used to doing outboards (reads -"outboards" not trucks, cars, lawn mowers, snowmobiles or dirt bikes). If you're not comfortable with someone in your area just let us know. There are lots of good shops around.

 

[sony224422]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Dhadley, first of all thanks so much for all the info.

I am so new to all this, its not anything like a car engine haha. Everythings smaller and more complicated.

I really don't think it'd need to be bored out, i mean, it is scratched but the piston head looks like its what took most of the hit. I really don't know too much about what would happen if i hone a little and replace with a standard size because honestly, its been along time for both the boat and the engine.

Im gunna take pictures and stuff tomorrow, do you know where i can get a piston and a new set of rings for a good price?

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Again, don't go by what it looks like. Go by what the machine shop tells you after they measure the cylinders. You can't see out-of-round and you can't see .004" wear. They'll measure it with a dial bore gauge and that will determine the next step. Even if the cylinder was round - it won't be - and at .002", by the time you hone it, it'll be out of spec.

 

[Kevin W]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

do you know where i can get a piston and a new set of rings for a good price?

This is one of the reasons why I said look for a donor PH.
pistons are not cheap last time i looked they were around 100$ each and 25$ for rings.
Asuming the PH is in or close to spec.
you could replace the bad piston, replace all the rings, you would need a gasket set, 2 carb rebuild kits, WP impeller, cross hatch hone to the bores and anything else that might come up.

Everything I listed here is what i would consider essential and it would be around 400$ min.
its your $$

 

[hoeser]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Chances are you really aren't going to be able to feel the damage accurately with your finger. Like I said I had the exact same thing happen to my 84' 140 and when I was looking it over I thought it would come out with a good hone or a .010 bore.. when I had a machinist look at it he knew right away it was going to need a lot more.

I got an entire rebuild kit off ebay with GLM piston kits (x4), a crankshaft seal kit, a gasket kit, all new connecting rod bearings for $490 USD which I think is a pretty good deal. Works good so far.

 

[sony224422]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Alright, I went out to take some pictures.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/sony224422/IMG_0855.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/sony224422/IMG_0853.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/sony224422/IMG_0851.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/sony224422/IMG_0850.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/sony224422/IMG_0849.jpg

Those are the the starboard side piston. The head is still on the port side, the bottom piston is the one that blew.

 

[hoeser]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Holy hell man, what is living in your cooling jacket around your cylinders!!? - Your pictures look all to familiar to me... Here is pictures from mine:

http://www.davidcarrick.ca/media/rebuild/100_2035.JPG

http://www.davidcarrick.ca/media/rebuild/100_2038.JPG

http://www.davidcarrick.ca/media/rebuild/100_2049.JPG

Same side and cylinder as yours.

 

[hoeser]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Upon closer inspection of the pictures you provided, particularly this one:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/sony224422/IMG_0850.jpg

I can tell you right now that the gouge you are dealing with along the right side of that picture is going to take a major bore, possibly a sleeve to remedy. If you are at standard bore you're going to .030+ to get rid of that.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

those 2 holes need a minimum of .020 over plus 2 new pistons.
i doubt the cylinderhead will be in good shape.

if you reuse the cylinderhead the dings wil create hotspots(glowing red hot) and cause preignition.

thats already about $ 300

and what else you need?

 

[sony224422]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

yep, i didn't see that gouge the other day. I didn't notice it until i posted the pics.

Now, Say i overbore those two or just that one .030 or .040, and the gouge is till lightly there, what would happen? Lower compression?

I'm afraid to even open up the portside.

I'm in the process of taking off the powerhead right now.

 

[sony224422]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

Holy hell man, what is living in your cooling jacket around your cylinders!!? - Your pictures look all to familiar to me... Here is pictures from mine:

http://www.davidcarrick.ca/media/rebuild/100_2035.JPG

http://www.davidcarrick.ca/media/rebuild/100_2038.JPG

http://www.davidcarrick.ca/media/rebuild/100_2049.JPG

Same side and cylinder as yours.

Haha, there were mice in the under the crowel haha. I scared the little guys when I took it off. Luckly, they didn't eat anything, and all the electrical stuff was taken off and stored before the boat was put away.

How much did your rebuild cost for you? I mean, the lower end was rebuild right before this happened, so it'll be like almost a new engine i guess. I really don't know what to do, if i should continue the disamble or if i should just invest in a new motor..

 

[tschamp20]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

dang hoeser nice lighting and angle on your second pic.
i must be a real *** cause mine lookes/looked about like hoesers cylinder and a hone jod while it obviously didnt get rid of the gouge helped some.as i said ive got 120 compression on that cylinder!he already stated that he only needs 5 good years not another 30.
disclaimer:im by no means an expert but it sounds to me like your in the same boat as i was,no pun intended.i can tell you from my experiance that you may be fine.of course every scenario is different.hope that helps!

 

[tschamp20]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

my rebuild was about $900 but thats w/ a $230 connecting rod. the problem i see w/ finding another motor is what if its failing thats why there selling it.for $1000 you will have a freshly rebuilt motor that you know inside and out.or $1000 for a who knows what that you know absolutaly nothing about.think about it hard unless you got money to throw around. if its the latter i could use a loan!!!!

 

[tschamp20]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

oh yeah ishopmarine.com has everything you need w/ diagrams.just enter the model # on the home page under johnson/evinrude.or boatpartsstore.com

 

[sony224422]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

thank you very much for all the help and support.

I have decided to throw some money into it, so i know its history and know what im getting to. I started more disambling, and so far I have run into a problem getting the long bolts underneath the powerhead out. I've broken 4, and gotten 2 out, im hoping that they will just pull thru when i lift it up and i can replace them. I have the '79 (the year the engine is) service manual, with all the diagrams and such in it. Its very helpful. I'm probably going to spend the night tonight trying to get the powerhead off, and strip it down.

Does anyone know a good machinest in CT?

 

[hoeser]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

My rebuild total was about $1800... the reason it was so expensive was mostly the sleeves. It was already 030 when it blew... here is what I did..

2x Sleeves to 040 ($600)
2x Bores to 040 ($120)
4x GLM Piston kits
1x Crankshaft seal kit
4x Needle bearing kits (upper rod)
4x Caged Needle bearing kits (lower rod)
1x Thermostat kit
1x Gasket kit

I just did the initial water run tonight, the first hour of my break in and I gotta say it went flawlessly. Excellent smooth running, way more quiet than it was, idle is damn near perfect even with double oil. Way worth it in my opinion even though it was a tonne of work.

 

[hoeser]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

I want 20 years out of my engine... and I'm kinda the "overkill" type - I'm sure its possible to get away with less.

 

[sony224422]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

So, I think im going to take off the power head, hone it myself, just the two starboard side ones, very lightly, order one new piston kit and new rings and hope for the best for now. I may bring it down while its all apart for a machine shop to look at, but I don't think the engines worth the money. I mean, I want to do a total rebuild, but not now. Hopefully i just won't have as high as compression as the other 3, but it'll still run stong. And then I will rebuild it completely over the winter, if not get a whole new powerhead.

 

[sony224422]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

actually, what if i over bored both starboard side pistons to .030 over? Would i have any major issures.. like would the engine shake alot?

 

[hoeser]

Re: 1979 115 fried rings

I am not a fan of uneven bores but some people swear by them... you will probably notice it at idle at the least. If you are going to do anything you are going to have to pull the block, while doing that you wont hurt yourself by taking it to a machine shop... they will tell you what needs to be done. Are you saying you want to hone the bad side and put in 2 pistons and leave the other two the way they are? I would say that's not a good idea.

You will have *more* issues with uneven compression than with even low compression... and after looking at that massive gouge I can tell you the compression after a hone will be much lower on that cylinder. I think it would be a waste of your money to go that route. Personally, I would rather spend a little more on something that works properly than a little less on something that runs like garbage. Again it's all just an opinion, not telling you want to do or anything.