Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

[kameika]

Everyone. After all the preparation and inspection; my shakedown was a bit rough.

For starters: 225HP 2.7L Looper on a 1988 Sea Drive. (SeaDrive).

A fair day of running I noticed a slightly rough running. Like something was rubbing. But running strongly. Not bad enough to worry about a rubbing stator or whatever.

Well, I decided to stop the engine--and could not restart it. Starting was hopeless. The top end was grinding like a pig (starter, I think). The engine attempted to start, but sputtered after a few RPMs.

I did order a new starter. I am not convinced this is the end-problem, though. When I manually turn the engine (slowly) -- no noise. Starter attempts to turn the engine? Loud squealing and grinding.

I am thinking the following things. EVERYONE -- tell me if you have insight:

Worst case: The top bearing is bad, causing the flywheel to "cant" or tilt. But I am observince zero wobble when I manipulate the flywheel.
Next worst: Power steering pump is failing. Causing squeaking.
Next worst: I'm losing yet another STATOR. Ugh. It's rubbing against the flywheel assy.
Best Case: Bad starter. Already ordered a OEM New one.
Any other cases??

Smile. I'll be the guy jerking up the flywheel AGAIN on my Looper. On Memorial Day weekend.

The worst case has me up at night. How likely is this kind of problem seen? 1988/1989 OMC/Johnson/Rudes: Was there some kind of problem like this???


anyhow folks, your insight would be VERY much appreciated.

Ken
Red Bank, New Jersey.

 

[F_R]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

Sorry, the "worst" case is worse than that. The worst case is a bad bearing anywhere on the crankshaft which destroyed the crankshaft.

But look for external stuff before staying up nights worrying about the worst.

 

[kameika]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

How frequently have you seen such a failure?

What typically causes such a thing to occur?

If it were a bad bearing or bad crankshaft; what kinds of things would I hear or see?

Thank you!
Ken
Red Bank, NJ.

 

[kameika]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

Folks, how do I know if a top bearing is bad? Is the wobble noticable if I push/pull on the flywheel assembly? Or is this consider inconclusive???

Thank you.
Ken

 

[F_R]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

The crankshaft is so rigid and well supported that if the top bearing (only) were bad there still wouldn't be a lot of movement in the crank. But the chances of a bad top bearing (only) are slim to none.

If you have any noticeable wobble in the flywheel/crank, you have very serious trouble indeed!

How often have I seen bad bearings (throughout the engine)? Lots of times. But of course I was a professional outboard mechanic for 24 years and have seen most everything. Bad bearings are usually the result of water getting in where it doesn't belong.

 

[kameika]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

I surely appreciate this.

I am meticulous about keeping the engine dry and clean. WD40 frequently, etc.

I hope it is something easier than bearing damage. Depending on the magnitude of the problem, it could "do in" the boat.

I am likely paranoid.

Saturday, I am going to dress down and tear the stator off.

Tell me: Have you ever seen bearing damage cause direct squeaking/etc from starting? Or is the problem more subtle?

Why? It was a sudden failure, like something like a starter or bound pulley holding the engine from starting. Very strange kind of thing.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

Is the flywheel torqued to 150 Ft. Lb? Are the flywheel magnets secure?

 

[kameika]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

I'll surely find out.

I did need a rebuild to the flywheel (magnet rebuild kit) in 2005. Since this repair, the unit ran perfectly.

Interestingly, when I hand turn the flywheel, no grinding or whatever. It sounds clear.

I did torque this down to the specification provided on the service manual.

Only when I start it via the starter does it grind and howl. It's awful sounding.

Possible only a starter problem? Yes, the starter has been giving problems. But I have yet to hear a starter actually turn a flywheel, but with all the howling.. Then, worse, stalling the engine when it attempts to start..

Sound even remotely familiar?

 

[kameika]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

I have a solution. Anyone pulling off the flywheel should listen to this one.

I replaced a stator 18 months ago. I replaced the stator, torqued the flywheel to 120 ft-lbs. Okay fine. Party time.

Now I am worried the bearings are shot, etc. I tear down the top section of engine. The flywheel was completely loose.

Hence the bendix squealing, etc.

Further, the positioning key is torn to hell. Okay. Bad.

I clean everything up, go to the OMC store, and tell everyone, "I must be either stupid or weak. The center nut came undone and spun the flywheel."

Not so! According to the senior guy.

See, the TAPER on the crankshaft is what holds the flywheel in place against the nut. NOT the key. The key is only for position holding.

To properly re-fasten the flywheel, get valve lapping compound and steer the flywheel to the crankshaft.

I have never heard this on iBoats. Amazing.

Only when you have a properly "lapped down" surface between the flywheel and shaft, should the key and fastening nut be replaced.

(First clean everything to an antiseptic state, of course.

The engine is purring along this morning.

I hope this helps you guys.

Ken
Red Bank, NJ

 

[ezeke]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

You may wish to review your source for the torque setting. Here is the one from the 225HP 90? Looper Factory Service Manual, Page 3-9.

 

[kameika]

Re: Sluggish running, then stall and grinding restart

GAD! I looked at my service manual! You're right. 140-150ft-lb! I must have mis-read the manual!

Gosh, I am unsure if my band-clamp can hold back that kind of torque. It was all I could do to pull down 120ft-lb!

Okay. I'm buying beer. Someone holds the band clamp, I pull the torque wrench.

J.C. That'll nearly kill me.

You're a saint, sir. That's good of you.

Hey, any tricks you have to push on 140-150 ft-lbs?

I should mention: The engine purrs. This must have been a progressive trouble. I have renewed faith in this looper.