Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

[treedancer]

Enron showed how to game the public in CA, the oil companies have refined it (pardon the pun) and shown how to run the game and stay out of jail.

New Oil Company?s motto [when supply is up, raise prices, when supply is down raise prices.]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/23/business/refinery.php

<< But some oil executives are now warning the current shortages could become a long-term problem, leading to stubbornly higher prices at the pump. And they point to a surprising culprit: uncertainty created by the government's push to increase the supply of biofuels like ethanol in coming years.>>

Check this quote out?.. talk about when life gives you a lemon ,making lemonade .Taking it to a whole new level.

<< The Congress is considering legislation calling for a nearly fivefold increase in the use of ethanol. That has led many oil companies to reconsider or scale back their plans for constructing new refinery capacity.>>

 

[pjc]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

I saw the same article in todays newsrag. Can't blame them for not investing in production expansion if the market will be reduced. Good business imo.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

C'mon tree hugger, you wanted ethanol, you got it.

Quit complaining.

 

[fireman57]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

The whole problem with biofuel is they are making it out of the wrong stuff. I farm about 500 acres in southern Indiana. Last year corn went for about four dollars a bushel after years of lounging around 2.12 to 2.85. The government does no price supports after corn would hit 2.20. In other words if corn was selling for 2.05 a bushel they would pay you 15 cents a bushel to get you to 2.20. The input cost used to run about 2.00 bushel to plant it, take care of it, harvest it, and get it to market.
All the four dollar corn did is put a bunch of money in the farmer's pocket for a short term. Since the price is now around 3.80 it is still good. The problem lies in that all the things you use have gone up over 50%. Fertilizer jumped over 50% after the four dollar corn because "they anticipated a lot of acreage getting shifted into corn production and that caused an immediate shortage". They had all winter to produce nitrogen and have more stockpiled already then they will probably sell, according to my local coop man. The fuel has gone up because they are scared of ethanol reducing their oil profits. The problem is it will not reduce them at all as they are the ones refining it.
There are better things to make ethanol out of than corn. There are sugar beets which are grown in Wisconsin that surely would grow here at cheaper costs and produce twice the ethanol that corn would. We would still get a decent price for the beets or even a modified sugar cane but would not take corn out of the food chain and raise those prices. Beef, hogs, and chicken will rise sharply as the feed costs for these has risen dramatically with the corn price being high.
The ethanol plan was just a knee jerk reaction to make it look like they were doing something about energy problems and all they did was raise everyone's prices from fuel to food.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

Yabut ,there making the price of Tacos sky high.

 

[gonefishie]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

Wow Fireman..do all farmers feel that way about corn ethanol? I have heard that ethanol plant stink to high heaven, is there any truth to that? You'll have to excuse my city slicker behind. How much corn is exactly a bushel? how many bushels can you get from an acre? with the higher gas prices lately, does it even economical to grow corn to produce ethanol since you have to use gas/diesel for your farm machineries?

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

The whole problem with biofuel is they are making it out of the wrong stuff. I farm about 500 acres in southern Indiana. Last year corn went for about four dollars a bushel after years of lounging around 2.12 to 2.85. The government does no price supports after corn would hit 2.20. In other words if corn was selling for 2.05 a bushel they would pay you 15 cents a bushel to get you to 2.20. The input cost used to run about 2.00 bushel to plant it, take care of it, harvest it, and get it to market.
All the four dollar corn did is put a bunch of money in the farmer's pocket for a short term. Since the price is now around 3.80 it is still good. The problem lies in that all the things you use have gone up over 50%. Fertilizer jumped over 50% after the four dollar corn because "they anticipated a lot of acreage getting shifted into corn production and that caused an immediate shortage". They had all winter to produce nitrogen and have more stockpiled already then they will probably sell, according to my local coop man. The fuel has gone up because they are scared of ethanol reducing their oil profits. The problem is it will not reduce them at all as they are the ones refining it.
There are better things to make ethanol out of than corn. There are sugar beets which are grown in Wisconsin that surely would grow here at cheaper costs and produce twice the ethanol that corn would. We would still get a decent price for the beets or even a modified sugar cane but would not take corn out of the food chain and raise those prices. Beef, hogs, and chicken will rise sharply as the feed costs for these has risen dramatically with the corn price being high.
The ethanol plan was just a knee jerk reaction to make it look like they were doing something about energy problems and all they did was raise everyone's prices from fuel to food.

FIreman could you elaborate on how long a given feild can repeadily be planted with corn before it has to be rotated to another crop,

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

Good post Fireman57.
I would be interested in your answers to others questions.
Corn isn't grown here like in USA. So the corn you talk of: 'is it on the cob type....right?'
Do you harvest it with a combine, so the whole cob goes into the bin.
When do you remove the kernal from the cob.
Do you bale the stalk for stock feed or just slash and burn.
I quite like uncooked corn. I will take the 2nd cob that grows above the main one (when it is taken off), and just peel away the leaves and eat the few kernals on it then and there. They seem too soft and luicy to be able to remove mechanically.
What do you do with all the cobs....I find they don't compost very well. Can't imagine what you would do with 500 ton of them.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

Beef, hogs, and chicken will rise sharply as the feed costs for these has risen dramatically with the corn price being high./quote]

Good post fireman57. You are correct: My feed (horses) has gone up $1.50 a bag in the last 6 weeks.

 

[studlymandingo]

It is all a shell game

It is all a shell game

with the higher gas prices lately, does it even economical to grow corn to produce ethanol since you have to use gas/diesel for your farm machineries?

no.

As it is right now, it takes almost more energy to produce ethanol than what the ethanol produces. There are crops that produce energy with less negative production. I think that it is good the public is becoming more aware of our energy problems, but we just aren't doing the right things to make positive changes yet.​

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

So the corn you talk of: 'is it on the cob type....right?'

As opposed to "in the can type"!

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

OMG, Haut, Big Corn, Big Corn. Haut, it's Big Corns fault. Quick, call the government, Big Corn. Do something, you know Big Corn, it's Big Corn's fault. Big Corn profiteers in a capitalistic economy. Haut help save us from Big Corn.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

I disagree that we aren't doing the right things. Just heard on the radio that a farsighted entrepeneur is buying restaurant deep fryer oil and turning it into usable fuel to sell. Right now, most restaurants have to buy it at the going prices and pay to get rid of it. He heats his facilities with it, he powers his trucks with it, and he even uses it to fuel the refining process. He is partnering with another entrepeneur that is making home heating units and diesel automotive conversions. Plans are in the works to supply restaurants with fresh (not recycled) oil at a price mainstream providers can't touch with the agreement that the restaurants will sell it right back to him when they're finished with it. The restaurants are happy, the farmers are happy, his customers are happy, and he's on the ground floor to a fortune. But sure as the nose on your face, Exxon and their ilk will blame him for the price of gasoline going up. Heck, they'd blame hangnails for the high price of gas if the likes of Rush and O'Really could be convinced to "spread the word".

If this guy ever decides to go public, BUY!

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: It is all a shell game

Re: It is all a shell game

no.​

As it is right now, it takes almost more energy to produce ethanol than what the ethanol produces. There are crops that produce energy with less negative production. I think that it is good the public is becoming more aware of our energy problems, but we just aren't doing the right things to make positive changes yet.​

Actually this is where i was hoping where fireman would go, it any large scale corn operation was ever attempted inside of 2-4 years the ground would be so depleted of mineral's corn could no longer be planted, nor could one fertlize it enough, it would be a desert as far a corn goes...

 

[treedancer]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

Quote Kiwi Phil

What do you do with all the cobs....I find they don't compost very well. Can't imagine what you would do with 500 ton of them.



Here is what we do with some of the cobs.



http://www.corncobpipe.com/

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

The tobacco industry would certainly be happy if the tons and tons of cobs were converted to pipes!!!​

 

[badams270]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

Its pretty bad that the oil companies would blame anybody but themselves for the high prices, as they have record breaking profits every quarter.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

It makes me feel better that for every gallon of ethanol being used is less oil we have to buy from the enemy.

The key is to utilize all types of alternative energy production so that alternative competition with the oil companys is promoted.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

I'm not fireman but alot of corn/maize/oats/cotton is grown just west of me. These people have been running the same crops in the same places all of my 32 years. In the winter you plant a cover crop and then fold it in in the spring before the real crops are planted. It takes about half as much fertilizer that way and saves the farmers about 30%.

 

[pjc]

Re: Biofuel push seen lifting gasoline prices

Another element to the high gas price not being addressed by pols (heard some talk show opinions of this) is that some states reap higher gas tax revenues. Go figure.