Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

[Kiwi Phil]

This is what I have done to date.
Pumped up 28,000 litres from the dam, (thru a screen filter on the dam inlet.....in front of the foot valve).

Screen filter definitely gets out all the bug/solids etc.
Water is very red from dissolved clay. Nothing else in it.

Bought a DE filter.
It dosn't work too well as it blocks and blows a fitting off after filtering about 2,000litres.
So: I put the water thru the sand filter first. Circultate it thru about twice.
It left a red floating-bubble-type scum on top.
Tried to scoop it off with a sieve but it is too fine.
Then thru the DE filter, but it blocks after about 5,000litres.
Water was no longer red (from clay) but a grey colour.

So I decided to try again.
This time when I filled the tank, I added Allum (flock).
I also added chlorine bringing it up to 10ppm free chlorine.
Next day it fell to 5ppm.
Next day zero.
So I ran it through the sand filter and in to another tank.
It went from red to grey.
No red scum on top.
Brought it up to 10ppm free chlorine (may have been higher, as my test sticks only go to 10. (It goes real #@%*% purple tho).
Next day it fell to 5ppm
next day it fell to 3ppm
next day it fell to 1ppm

The ph fell with the addition of Allum, (to 7.2) but still well within my growing range.

So..........this is what I am hoping i have achieved and why I THINK is is OK.

If I got the free chlorine to 10ppm, and it took 3 days to drop to 1ppm, and 1ppm is suffiecient to kill the bugs I am concerned with, then irrespective of the colour of the water (from red to grey) I should have sterile water.......shouldn't I????
Keep in mind, the plants don't mind what colour the water is.

What comments do you have.....anybody.....as this is a learning curve for me.

I used the water for a week in my system and all the plants look healthy.

Do you have a site for a simple DIY test kit for e-coli?
I think it would be good if I could test often/easily/cheaply.

As a side issue:
you would laugh your butt off as to how I have set everything up.
Bought 3x15m lenghts of creepy-crawly 40mm flexible pool hose, and a box of 40mm irrigation fittings and appropriate hose clamps (barb one end...thead the other).
Have cut the hose up in to all sorts of lengths.
This way I can experiment to my hearts delight by switching from one tank to another as with pumps and filters.
Cost a bit, but cheaper than fixed pipe.
Every connection drips/leaks.
When I get it all worked out I will go with the fixed pipe.
Must have spent 40hrs on it so far, even out there in the dark some nights and early mornings.
Place looks a shambles with all the hoses.

Thanks in advance
Cheers
Phillip

 

[rolmops]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

Hello Phil.
Sounds like it is starting to work out.I do not have time to give a complete reaction to your post,but one thing worries me.Your water should not be sterile!! It is the agent that carries the nutrients to the plants and it must carry a certain amount of fertilizing materials and electrolytes to pass on to your plants.Or it will destabilize your soils.
sorry got to go.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

Good to hear from you Rollmops:

Bit of confusion here.

The water I am treating is from the dam.
I store it in the 28,ooo or 25,ooolitre storage tanks,
then draw maybe 3,ooolitres per day from it,
add nutrients to it (by Proportional Dosing Units)
and then put it in an 10,000litre tank,
and it is this tank that feeds the plants.

I don't steralise the water again once it is in the 10,oooLitre tank.
Every hour, I pump out 3,ooolitres from this tank and it goes to the growing channels,
then is collected in another tank at the bottom of the hill,
then it is pumped back up to the 10,ooo litre tank for re-use.
Just a big circle.

Cheers
phillip

 

[tommays]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

I guess there was a LOT of duck poo in there if your cloging at 2000 Liters


Do you add liquid food of some type or does the soil feed them


The clarity is good as the dirt is bug food



Tommays

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

Phil, Tommays, Rolmops, (or any others). I am building a water system on Ruby Ridge Island. There is a 150 foot high rock on the island, the rain fall is over 100 inches per year. No shore power. The County allows up to a 200 square foot structure without permit. Here is my plan: dig or dynamite out a pit up on top of the rock, build a 200 square foot metal or fiberglass roof over it, and place a agricultural or plastic blader/tank in the hole under the roof. Insulate it to prevent freezing. I will put a net over the roof to prevent crows from sitting on the roof. I want to build a sand filter to get the solids out of the water. How do I do that? The water is not for drinking just showers n' toilets. Thanks for any help you could provide. JR ps: Sorry for the hijack!!

 

[rolmops]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

I have another 2 minutes.
The red color of your water is because of the very fine clay particles in the water.These will clog up your filters.And whatever gets through will eventually ruin your soil quality through sedimentation.
There are 2 ways to get rid of this.
You can use bentonite,which is a material that is very positively charged and will attract the clay particles through ionization.It will then settle in the bottom of your tank.( do your homework on this one before you try)
The other way is by using a filter that is made of a sort of thick paper that constantly rolls around 2 rollers and has a scraper at one point which scrapes of all the particles.
Just out of curiosity,do you add fertilizer and additional nitrogen to your irrigation system using a venturi system pump or do you add it directly to your soil,or are you running totally hydroponic?

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

OMR
to me, and i am no expert, your needs are easily solved.

1. Why build a pit?
Why not put up a 20'x10' garden shed.
The roof collects the water, the shed is for any storage.
Cost is probably similar to blasting/digging/plastic etc.

2. Get a 1,000litre plastic tank that is in an alloy cage.
The type they move bulk liquids in throughout the world.
They are cheap, in fact they are throw-a-ways.
Use this to store the water from the roof.
Put it at the corner of the shed, or even use more than one.
If you want a photo of one, let me know.

3. Put a small 2 tap pressure pump on it.
When you open a tap, the pump starts....close the tap, the pump stops.

4.If the roof is reasonably clean, then the water will be clean, and if you have concerns, then add chrloine. Really simple.

5. Here in Aussie, this is how the country people get ALL their house water, and they don't chlorinate it either.
They just use large tanks.

6. If you still want to filter, then look up 'Slow Sand Filtration'.
These are simple to make, and for your needs you would only need one of those 200litre (40gal?) blue plastic drums.
I have sites on them if you need.

Now here is the punch line.
I had completely overlooked the idea of a slow sand filter for me until I read your post.
I am wondering if it may be a very effective solution to my problem, so thanks for cutting-in.
Guess that is the benefit from listening to everyone.
Will spend the day thinking this one over.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[tommays]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

Phil

How did you coat the grids on the DI filter



Tommays

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

OMR
to me, and i am no expert, your needs are easily solved.

1. Why build a pit?
Why not put up a 20'x10' garden shed.
The roof collects the water, the shed is for any storage.
Cost is probably similar to blasting/digging/plastic etc.

I was thinking of a pit to stop the potential freezing of the holding tanks, (if possible to get deep enough). If I can't stop the tanks from freezing then I could drain the system in October and let it fill up in March. RR island is very rocky with some top soil. The temps are very mild, but sometimes the lake does freeze in the winter. If the holding tanks were under a couble of feet of soil (or insulation in a pit), I think they would stay liquid. The cost of a 10' x 20' metal or fiberglass roof is very minimal. A powder monkey is usually fairly cheap (and fast too). I'm not sure I could find a path down the 150' high rock where 18" of soil would cover the pipes to prevent freezing. If not: I will just drain the system.

2. Get a 1,000litre plastic tank that is in an alloy cage.
The type they move bulk liquids in throughout the world.
They are cheap, in fact they are throw-a-ways.
Use this to store the water from the roof.
Put it at the corner of the shed, or even use more than one.
If you want a photo of one, let me know.

I would like a picture or a site to look at if you don't mind.

3. Put a small 2 tap pressure pump on it.
When you open a tap, the pump starts....close the tap, the pump stops.

I was trying to avoid any power consuming device, as power is via generator or batteries. The difference in elevation between the big rock (150' high), and the cabin at 45' of elevation should be enough for gravity to provide water pressure.

4.If the roof is reasonably clean, then the water will be clean, and if you have concerns, then add chrloine. Really simple.

The roof would be brand new and clean, I could cut the trees back to limit leaves, and I thought a net to stop the crows from hanging out on the roof was a low tech solution to limit potential bird poop.

5. Here in Aussie, this is how the country people get ALL their house water, and they don't chlorinate it either.
They just use large tanks.

6. If you still want to filter, then look up 'Slow Sand Filtration'.
These are simple to make, and for your needs you would only need one of those 200litre (40gal?) blue plastic drums.
I have sites on them if you need.

I have a bunch of 50 gal plastic drums, (that had food in them). That was for my new float, but I could use a few for this project.

Now here is the punch line.
I had completely overlooked the idea of a slow sand filter for me until I read your post.
I am wondering if it may be a very effective solution to my problem, so thanks for cutting-in.
Guess that is the benefit from listening to everyone.
Will spend the day thinking this one over.

Cheers
Phillip

Phillip, Thanks for the tips, I googled the slow sand filter, and I think that would work very well at RR Island!! THANK YOU! I am interested in the 1000 liter tanks you mentioned, and where to acquire them. I bought two 1000 gal plastic yellow septic tanks, (that I installed for the two septic systems on RR island) that would also work very well for water storage, (but they are very spendy). I guess I should look for tanks now. Should I filter the fairly clean rain water prior to storage in the holding tanks? It would seem to make sense, then drip in some clorine to prevent algae growth while in the tanks. I guess it depends on wether I can dig the things down deep enough to prevent freezing. Thanks for the help. JR

 

[rolmops]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

I know these 1000 liter tanks well.Most fertilizer companies use them to sell their product in.You can check out local town high way departments or city park departments,they usually have a couple of them laying around.Just wash them out and they will do fine.
As for burying them.That is a problem, because they are made of fairly soft plastic and,when half empty, they will collapse under the weight of the soil.You will have to build a box around them.Probably some light plywood around the cage will do.
respectfully,rolmops.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

OMR
Here are some photos.
They are used internationally.
Make sure the valve/tap works properly, as they can not be replaced (odd size or custom made for tank).
I use 40mm white pipe and normally fix it with silicon (so I can remove it if I have too).
If you need to add a valve at a later date, see the one in the photo.
There are a cheap Taiwan white ball valve with a red handle on the market. Be cautious.
They are hard to turn off and on, and consequently put pressure on the pipe and fittings. I do use them but only in certain situations....this is not one.
I use these quality ball valves in picture.
I seldon use brass gate valves. They end up leaking after time....to many working parts.
Make sure it has a cap.
I had had these for years.

I have seen these insulated against the heat. They packed pink batts between tank and frame, them an outer layer of heavy UV resistant plastic (from Horticulture W/saler, in white to reflect heat)

I have no experience with the cold. Havn't seen a frost or fog in over 20yrs.

Water pressure.
For toilets and showers, gravity is excellant.
Many moons ago the Kiwi houses use to have a copper tank in the ceiling of homes that was filled by mains pressure, with a ball-**** stop valve. When you flushed the toilet, the cystern was refilled from this tank. Same with the hot water cylinder.
The gravit feed gave better pressure than the mains supply.
Remember clearing (for fun) flushing the toilet while Mother was in the shower, and listening to the scream as she did the two-step.
Maybe this system could be adapted to meet your needs, especially as you have the 50gal plastics.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

Tommays:
This is how i coated the Candles in the DE Filter.
I removed the centre ring, took the top half off, poured some water in the bottom half, added the DE Powder, then added more water, stirring with a stick, till the bottom half was full.
Put the top half back on, then the outer ring, and tightened.
Switched the pump on.
Could find any other way of doing it as I an drawing the water in-to the DE Filter from the 28K tank.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[tommays]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

Ok

But usally you use a bit of clean water and a venturi action to carry the earth onto the grids to build and even cake of DE filter media


Tommays

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Water treatment..Tommays/Rollmops and others.

OK....never thought of a venturi......pretty obvious now you mention it.
Thanks for the idea.
Cheers
Phillip