1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

KYHunter2......... I plan to use the break-procedure outlined in the OEM Service Manual. But I will likely follow your recommendation on the 1 hr idle period. I have read several of your posts regarding the break in, and am giving them some serious thought. I've got a great lake locally where this procedure would be most fitting. And it has some excellent fishing that is REALLY calling my name. Spending ten hours breaking this powerhead in on that lake, is something I've been longing to do for about 8 or 9 months!!!! This lake would force me to be gentle with her, yet provide me with some fantastic fishing opportunities. I can't wait to get back out there!!!! If I can locate that timer base ball and socket, I might go in the morning!!!!! I'll pull the plugs when I return to the ramp and let you know what I see, in detail. I have about 15 minutes total on the powerhead right now. I won't let any of the horses go until I have an hour on it. I mixed the fuel, two 16 oz cans Johnson and Evinrude two cycle oil per 6 gallons of fuel. The manual states a 50:1 ratio should be used for the entire break in procedure. I hope I have mixed it correctly? I have normally used 1 can per 6 gallons of fuel. I tested the temp switches while rebuilding and both close the circuit at 200* as per the manual. I grounded the wires to a bolt on the power head and the horn does sound in the control box. So, I know I'm good there. But what about this uneven head temperature. I know you say that this is common, but you never elaborated on the issue as to WHY this is? Does it have to do with the flow of water through the powerhead water jackets?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Do you have vernatherm elements (stats) installed? I think 124° is too low. My guess is 140 to 145° is what you should be seeing. Did you replace the water deflectors as part of the rebuild (they're the black hose things stuck in the block under the heads)?

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

wilde1j................Yes. New thermostats were installed prior to putting the powerhead back on. And yes, new water deflectors were installed by Mar-Fab when I had the block bored and cleaned. This temperature will likely go up a little once I dunk the lower unit in the lake with the cowling on. Remember, I am checking things right now with the cowling off, the lower unit with muffs on, and have yet to put it in the lake where it will have a little back pressure. Too, I could have gotten a little of the RTV gasket sealer between the head and the sender on this guage. It's not a permanent unit, but rather one that gives me a referrence point to go by. Now that it's shifting great, yahooooo!!!!, I'll likely dunk it on my first day off work and post back with my findings then. Thanks..................... ALAN

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Ok........... I just returned from the lake. I still have this cough at an idle and it's really bothering me. Occassionally, it will cough and kill the motor while sitting still and idling at 1000 rpms. Outside of that, when throttled up to about 1200-1400 rpm, it purrs like a sewing machine and holding steady at 12-13 psi on the water pressure guage with a temperature holding right at 130*. I suspect I have gotten some crap in the carbs when I removed them to fix the lower unit shift lever arm, as it will not accelerate past 1900 rpms. Sounds like it's starved for fuel. Just to be safe, I'm going to perform a compression test to verify everything internally is still sound, and move on from there. I'll also go through my link and sync again to make certain I didn't miss anything. Could the float level in the carb bowls cause this problem if, when turned upside down, the floats are too high when set up? I suspect they probably are, this being the first time I've ever rebuilt carbs. I may have gone a little too high. I probably should have used a ruler to measure them when installing the floats instead of eyeing them in. Prior to re-installation, they were soaked overnight in carb cleaner, and blown out with compressed air. Thanks..............ALAN

 

[clint]

1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

The 140 should run hotter on the starboard side and I agree with the Lieutenant it should be in the 140 to 145 degree range. My 1979 140 Rude runs warmer on the starboard side always to this day. Never runs over 145 degrees. Go easy for the breakin and stop worrying that things are going to happen. You did all the right mechanics on the rebuild. Sounds like an all systems go. As long as your Temp Horn is operating all that will happen if temp rises your alarm will alert you and then shut her down. Let it sit for 15 minutes and start it back up and make sure water is peeing etc. I think with double oil for breakin the engine will still run a little warmer from new parts and the extra friction. Relax and enjoy your new 140 Evinrude motor. Good Luck!
Clint 8)

 

[79Rude115]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

I thought the manual said not to soak the floats in solvent. Could it be that the solvent weighed the floats down so that they are no longer floating properly?

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

79Rude115............The carbs were disasembled prior to soaking them. New kits were installed after blowing them out. I was just curious.......... Could the float level in the carb bowls cause this problem if, when turned upside down, the floats are too high when set up?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Coughing suggests lean running. The floats need to be adjusted right for the mixture to be correct. If you're not sure, pull the carbs and check the floats for correct level (refer to the shop manual for what's correct). If you think crap could have gotten into the carbs, all the more reason to pull them (they need to be immaculately clean).

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Lean still suggests too much air, or not enough fuel. On a closed system like yours, too much air is as likely the problem as anything and has many more possible sources.

Air can enter anywhere on the fuel system including the intake manifold gaskets. It can enter from a loose spark plug. It can enter from a bad diaphragm on the fuel pump or from the check valve on the intake manifold. Once in the system it has no way out except through the firing chambers.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Ok...........Just to assure myself that this is not a mechanical issue, I'm going to go back through my link and sync in order to rule out any possible mistakes made on my part in respect to that area. I did notice, however, that the ball seemed to be mushy when I tried to throttle up. I squeezed it, but it didn't help. Too, I have a hard time initially priming the system. It just doesn't want to pull fuel from the onboard fuel cell when squeezing the ball to prime the system. However, if I attemp to start the engine, it will easily pull the fuel through the installed fuel filter, through the water seperator, and it hardens right up. It just doesn't want to stay hard. I've double checked all the splices and all seem to be nice and tight with no leaks. I might also add, if I initialize the choke during the time of the problem, the powerhead wants to stall out. "wilde1j".............. The service manual suggests I use a "special guage #324891" which I do not have access to. As mentioned above, via Kyhunter2, I just set the floats level with the carb flange while inverted. I think I set the back side of the float, farthest end from the needle/seat that is, a little too high. Would this potentially cause a problem like the one I'm having? Any suggestions on further diagnosis? Thanks a bunch............ALAN

 

[rwash91]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Outdoorsman:
I am going through some of the same problems you are describing with the coughing and not idling very well. I havn't had the throttling up problem though. I have had those freakin carbs off my engine so many times I could do it blindfolded easily..lol. The end of the float farthest away from the needle and seat should be approximatly level with the other. I think more importantly than that , is that they both need to be the same. Use anything you can to measure them accuratly with. I use a dial caliper from the carb flange to the top of the float.Set level they are about.450-.475 I have had mine from .425 to .525 at present with no difference in the way the engine runs at WOT..525 is quite a bit higher than called for ( less fuel in the carb) and I still have no indication of running lean. Remember when you set these levels to NOT push directly on the little needle,this will ruin it before you ever get to use it. If I need to lower the float I put a small screwdiver between the float arm and the base and lightly push down the float with my finger while holding the screwdriver with my other. This keeps all the force off the needle and seat. I have been watching your thread as I may have to go the same route that you have. I am not really a boat engine mechanic but have lots of expierience with other engines and this is one of the most tempermental engines I have ever messed with. I am sure that when these carbs are new and set right they work just fine,but when things get worn and need a little tweaking it sure as hell would be nice if they had a freakin adjusting screw on them. I wish I could be more help to ya. I know when these babies run right they are sweet. I used to fish with a guy that had one.(78' 140) I got mine earlier this year and have yet to here it run perfect. But i will keep fooling with it untill it does.
One other thing...those infrared temp guns are pretty cheap these days. You could use one to "shoot" anywhere on you engine that you want to. I have one that we use on race car tires,headers and such...they work great.... also, those hand pump balls tend to get a little softer when there actually running ....good luck !!!

 

[79Rude115]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

There are probably a ton of different things that could be causing your problem - this sounds like a problem I had with my 78 115. It took me over a month to figure out, after rebuilding the carbs and pulling them off multiple times to check the level of the floats and replacing all of the fuel line I figured out it was the fitting on the top of the fuel cell that was not sealing properly, it was pulling in a little air and this made it hard to get the system primed and keep it primed. I think the fitting cost me a few dollars and that fixed it for good. It is worth checking out.

You could also try to hook it up to a little portable tank and see if that corrects the problem.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

It still comes down to air infiltration.

You can spot it easily with a clear hose installed temporarily between the carburetor lines and and the fuel pump - any bubbles at all indicate a leak.

 

[79Rude115]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

I just thought of something else - did you replace the fuel lines? If so were you careful to route them as they were before ensuring that there were no restricted bends?

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

ezeke.............. I have a clear plastic fuel filter, a water seperator, and new bulb attached prior to entering the cowling. I have installed all new hoses exactly as they were before. When I squeeze the bulb as it's attached to a short piece of hose and put my finger over this open end, it builds up pressure as if I'd installed the bulb with the indicator arrow pointing backwards. It blows gas back out at me. Keep in mind, the bulb is between my finger and the powerhead. Too, with the bulb compressed, I can put my finger over the end of the hose and the bulb will stay compressed until I remove my finger from the end of the hose. Is this normal? Or could I have possibly gotten a bad bulb?


UPDATE: I went through my link and sync and found some minor problems. The motor was idling at 3* BTDC. I brought this up to the recommended 5* BTDC with an idle speed on the muffs @1400 rpm's. Although I can't get them any lower, the cough at idle is now non-existant. It purrs like a kitten!!! This was accomplished without dismantling the carbs. Makes me wonder if this has all just been a timing issue all along. I was sure it was correct before, but now this all has me wondering. I think another lake test is in order now. My timing light will go for a ride with me this time too.

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

^bump

 

[i386]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Sync and link did wonders for my old 20HP Chrysler. It smoked like hell and wouldn't run with the cover on 'till I did that. Hopefully your troubles are over.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

Hope things are going well.... Isn't this fun?

 

[Theoutdoorsman]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

i386................. I hope your right. I feel alot better knowing that cough is now gone.


Masterbrian............ You might find this hard to believe, but yes, it is fun to me. I want to know all I can about my rig when I'm 20 miles from the nearest boat ramp and something happens. I'll get it lined out, it's just going to take me a little time. I fish almost all year long, so there's really no hurry. I'm more concerned that it's done right. I've learned alot, and knowing I can take care of myself when I'm out there is something you just can't put a price tag on.........you know? Hey, did you get your boat back yet? Just curious what they found?


Now.........if i can get one of you guys/gals to wiggle your nose and make this rain go away, I'll test this thing out again..........o

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: 1979 Evinrude 140 rebuild sucessfull start but problem......?

I know what you mean. I find it fun as well...at least when things go well and don't fight me. I did mine for the same reasons you described!

Haven't gotten mine back yet, but figure I'll call later today to see if they have found anything out yet. You can keep the rain your direction for now... 8)

After my rebuild it seemed every time out it ran better and better. Must have been things finally seating and all the little adjustments here and there....