Redoing floor: opinions?

[Nismoron]

Well, I'm about to start redoing the floors in my Mariner. So I have a few questions for you guys that have so boldly gone before me.

I will most likely be using 1/2 marine ply. I dont think 5/8 will fit under some of the flanges and other areas built into the boat.
After considering severals ways of doing this, I think I will do this. I will turn the 4X8 plywood sideways and cut to fit in the width of the boat. So, from from to back, I will have 4ft long deck sections. Each of these will then be glassed with 6oz cloth on the bottom and 8 or 10oz cloth on the top and sides. Which type of resin would you guys recommend and why? I have worked with both polyester and epoxy. I prefer epoxy and it is more waterproof. But polyester is half the cost, will slowly allow moisture to escape wood, and is what most boats are made from. Probably purely because of cost, haha

Second question? How should I finish floor? My Mariner originally had carpet, but I DO NOT want carpet in my boat. One dropped squid or catfish liver bait will stink for years... :-O
I could glass all of the plywood pieces into one and paint it. But my past 2 boats had painted floors and they needed constant maintenance and repainting.
I'm thinking about a product called Nautolex, but it appears to no longer be available. I'm sure there is something similar from another manufacturer. But I am concerned about the finish of the edge. About half of the boat has a "step" than installs over the floor edge. But the front half of the boat has the floor edge exposed. I dont want the floor covering to peal up after time.
I have also considered glassing the floor panels into one piece and then gelcoating to make the floor look like the floor in a fiberglass offshore boat. But I am concerned with being able to glass a texture into the floor. And also concerned about working with the gelcoat. I've messed with poly and epoxy resins alot, but never gelcoat. I also dont want to get it all over the place in the boat while working with it.

I am also very concerned about getting my new foam wet while using/washing the boat or while raining. All of my previous boats were glass or aluminum with no floor. What is done to stop the water from going between floor and the side of the boat? Or what is done to keep the foam dry? I know alot of you guys use the sheet foam, but I am not convinced that it will adequately support my 1/2 inch floor.

Any thoughts? Besides that I am overthinking this. haha

 

[Watermann]

I'm thinking one of the more seasoned members or maybe moderator will come along and scold you for making a new thread for each step of your restoration project. He may even combine them for you after the lashing. :lol:

Anyway, I can't help with any fiberglass stuff because I use spar only. The cloth and fiberglass stuff will add thickness and maybe lessen the flex 1/2 marine ply has. If not one can add angle AL supports to boost the deck substructure.

 

[Grandad]

Are you sure that Nautolex is no longer available? I see it still advertised for sale.
I re-used the original 1/2" plywood becuase mine was in such great shape - but - 1/2" plywood used to measure 1/2". Now it seems it measures something less.
In regard to water getting between floors and walls, etc; you can't repeal the law of gravity and prevent the flow of water on and around such points in your boat. All you can do is control the direction that it flows and use materials that will withstand being wet for hopefully only a short period of time. Getting your foam wet will not hurt it. Leaving it submerged will damage it over time, particularly if you don't use a closed cell type of foam. Just provide a path for the water to get to the bilge and keep it pumped out, if it accumulates. - Grandad

 

[Nismoron]

I'm thinking one of the more seasoned members or maybe moderator will come along and scold you for making a new thread for each step of your restoration project. He may even combine them for you after the lashing. :lol:
.

I would hope that they wouldn't scold me for that or combine them into my resto thread where they would be lost for all people searching them in the future. THAT is why I post them as separate topics. What if someone in the future was restoring a Holiday, and they had floor questions, or pour in transom questions? They would be very unlikely to look in a thread about a Mariner 210. So much info is lost on this forum because it is buried in huge threads. I have accidentally found alot of good info in threads here, where I was looking for or reading about something totally unrelated...

If posting multiple questions is a problem, I will refrain from asking and just keep my posts to the facts about my resto...

Are you sure that Nautolex is no longer available? I see it still advertised for sale.

I am not sure. But every place I find it for sale, it is "Out of Stock" or "Currently Unavailable". I haven't found anyone that has it in stock.

 

[Watermann]

Most of us get the Nautolex at Defender

 

[Nismoron]

Most of us get the Nautolex at Defender

Everyone fairly happy with it? I had never heard of it before I got this boat. All of it on mine is in VERY bad shape. But it IS 28 years old... haha

 

[jbcurt00]

All in 1 Topic is for YOU, and those that try to answer your questions. But, yes seperate may help those that follow, but a plywood deck discussion usually includes choices for deck sealing and coverings discussions. Which might have been covered elsewhere.

As you tear apart your boat, start to clean up the aluminum and post pix, someone might notice something in the pix that needs to be done (like address possible corrosion and pitting) that you aren't currently doing or haven't said you plan to do. Possibly you've done something that might not yield safe, long term, satisfactory results that can still be address now before it's buried under the deck or has consoles mounted over it.

Mostly it's so that for reference, your boat project is all in 1 place, loaded w/ pix and possibly more help then you really wanted. Also to prevent duplication of effort/discussions by you and those answering your questions, like me now:

Polyester resin on the deck of a tin boat? Sacrilege I tell you sacrilege..... If you want to use a resin, I'd recommend epoxy, w/ or w/out glass over poly (which would require glass).

The forum servers would have far fewer total pix stored on them if all the projects were start to finish in 1 Topic, and I suspect that would save iboats quite a bit of time and money.......

BTW: Nautolex REQUIRES fastening along the edges. JigNGrub will be along shortly to extoll the virtues of Nautolex and his preferred installation method, which I think has quite a bit of merit. Other methods do too. He rolls the vinyl over the ply edge and fastens it to the back of the plywood BEFORE putting it in the boat. Then fastens the deck down to the stringers and etc THRU the vinyl. He also uses lots of aluminum angle and flat stock to cover any exposed edges AND the joint between 2 sheets of ply. His resto has LOTS of great pix of how he recommends doing it. There are other ways, which also have merit. It'll be up to you to sift thru the offered suggestions and decide which works best for you, your budget, project, timeline and skill level. (Jig will also recommend epoxy w/out glass for the deck).

You are of course free to post your project and your Topic subjects as you see fit. But PIX would be GREAT. And will significantly improve the foot traffic and postings to your Topics.

 

[GA_Boater]

Nis - I'm going to suggest you do keep everything one topic. Here are two reasons why - you said your were going with 1/2" decking because it won't fit under flanges/fittings/etc. Well, to point out that 5/8 or 3/4 would work (which it will) pictures of the cleaned out hull would be nice to refer to show you why the thicker ply will work. But where are your pics. In another topic. That makes it confusing for us to offer the correct advice. And someday you will be putting it all together and we will need some past info that's, you guessed it, in another topic.

In another topic you asked about alternatives to pour in foam and if foam sheets would support the floor. I know I said the foam didn't support the floor, the stringers and rib ends give all the needed support. If you use 5/8" or 3/4", the floor won't flex, the span is less than 24" between each of the four supports, stringers and rib ends, so extra support isn't needed. In my opinion, there is no way to keep water from under the floor of a tin boat. Many have tried some exotic methods, but only one way works. Keep the boat in the garage and don't ever launch. By designing the foam sheets to stay off the hull and resting no lower than the ribs, you provide the path for water to get out and not remained trapped. The bilge pump will put it over the side or pull the plug once back on the trailer. So you are asking the same questions again, in a new topic. You can do what you want, but consider making it easier on us. Future members will still be able to find answers using the search function or by asking questions just as you have.

Just to expand on why the side to side flooring is the best way to go and the only way to install the floors. Length-wise does not tie the sides of the hull together structurally, only side to side does - From rib end to rib end across the stringers. You figured that out. Material-wise, it takes more sheets of ply, but not more than a sheet.

The epoxy and cloth I used was Spar. If choosing between epoxy or poly, I'll choose Spar. When I coated my flooring, I put three coats of epoxy (Spar) top and bottom and each time I coated the edges for six coats of epoxy (Spar). I did have the occasion to lift one of my panels and it looked like the day I put it down. And Nautolex is still available and used on a lot of new boats, especially pontoons.

BTW - There is no way a Mod is going to try to merge all these four five topics together. I know I'm not going to try because one wrong step and they are all gone. But please do think about keeping future posts in your one resto topic because they are all resto questions. Except the pour-in transom question. :lol:

 

[Watermann]

Hey Nismo check out the definitive guides on how to in the resto stickys.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...r/295740-how-to-s-and-other-great-information

 

[Nismoron]

Nis - I'm going to suggest you do keep everything one topic. Here are two reasons why - you said your were going with 1/2" decking because it won't fit under flanges/fittings/etc. Well, to point out that 5/8 or 3/4 would work (which it will) pictures of the cleaned out hull would be nice to refer to show you why the thicker ply will work. But where are your pics. In another topic. That makes it confusing for us to offer the correct advice. And someday you will be putting it all together and we will need some past info that's, you guessed it, in another topic.

I have already tried the suggested 5/8 ad 3/4 decking. The 5/8 will currently slide under the front deck and transom braces, but just barely. After glassing both sides and adding a floor material, it will no longer fit. The 3/4 already does not fit. I put this in a different thread because I wanted to be able to find it. Who will remember that this conversation was on page 9 of a 50 something page thread? I will not. A seperate topic makes it much easier to archive as a bookmark in your browser or to search using the forum search engine.

In another topic you asked about alternatives to pour in foam and if foam sheets would support the floor. I know I said the foam didn't support the floor, the stringers and rib ends give all the needed support. If you use 5/8" or 3/4", the floor won't flex, the span is less than 24" between each of the four supports, stringers and rib ends, so extra support isn't needed.

I am going to have to respectfully argue with you on this one. When I placed the 5/8 board in my boat to test fit, it was very obviously flexible with my 200lbs standing on it. It was "springy". The 1/2 board was even more so. But when placed on the section of my boat that still has the pour in foam, the 1/2 was no longer "springy". It felt MUCH more solid than the unsupported 5/8. I do not want a springy or hollow feeling boat. Especilly when I'm 15 miles out in the Gulf of Mexico.

In my opinion, there is no way to keep water from under the floor of a tin boat. Many have tried some exotic methods, but only one way works. Keep the boat in the garage and don't ever launch. By designing the foam sheets to stay off the hull and resting no lower than the ribs, you provide the path for water to get out and not remained trapped. The bilge pump will put it over the side or pull the plug once back on the trailer. So you are asking the same questions again, in a new topic. You can do what you want, but consider making it easier on us. Future members will still be able to find answers using the search function or by asking questions just as you have.

You are probably right. But if I can keep as much out as possible, I will be able to tow my boat for longer before I have to tear out my floor and replace soaked foam again. I'm sorry that it was perceived that I was asking the same thing again, but I was not. I was asking how people possibly seal the sides of their floor to the gunwales. Where as, previously I had asked how people spaced their foam off of the floor. Admittedly with the same intended result. Dry Foam.

Just to expand on why the side to side flooring is the best way to go and the only way to install the floors. Length-wise does not tie the sides of the hull together structurally, only side to side does - From rib end to rib end across the stringers. You figured that out. Material-wise, it takes more sheets of ply, but not more than a sheet.

I agreee...

The epoxy and cloth I used was Spar. If choosing between epoxy or poly, I'll choose Spar. When I coated my flooring, I put three coats of epoxy (Spar) top and bottom and each time I coated the edges for six coats of epoxy (Spar). I did have the occasion to lift one of my panels and it looked like the day I put it down. And Nautolex is still available and used on a lot of new boats, especially pontoons.

Epoxy and Spar are 2 very different products. Epoxy is a 2-part system with a catylist. Spar is a single part sytem that uses and outside agent to catylize. Either air or the moisture content of air. I am not super familair with it, so I cannot comment on the specific catylizing agent. I am glad that Nautolex is available. I am just finding it difficult to find someone that has it in stock. Thanks.

BTW - There is no way a Mod is going to try to merge all these four five topics together. I know I'm not going to try because one wrong step and they are all gone. But please do think about keeping future posts in your one resto topic because they are all resto questions. Except the pour-in transom question. :lol:

I never imagined that posting seperate topics would be such an inflammatory action. All of the other forums that I am a member of encourage seperation for reasons that I have already discussed. Talking about other topics is referred to as 'derailing" and usually get a scolding from the moderator. In the future, I will refrain from making these frivolous threads and stick only to the topic of my restoration. Sorry to have ruffled feathers. Now I know.

 

[GA_Boater]

You haven't ruffled feathers. If you want to find or keep track of different parts of your topic, such as flooring, painting, foaming, etc, you can bookmark those sections and label/rename the bookmark as such. When you bookmark the start of a subject in a multi-page topic, the page is bookmarked. Some have built an index on the first page of the topic and update as subjects are added. I wasn't the first to raise the question about making a hard to follow, segmented multi-topic restoration.

The reference to epoxy (Spar) and poly (Spar) was tongue in cheek. Sorry you missed that.

If you really are looking for assistance, it is highly recommended to keep a cohesive, single topic rather than many disjointed topics. Primarily because of the reasons previous mentioned, ease of following by other members with many tin restos under their belt.

The point is you are asking us for help and advice, but it seems to you have already formed the direction you plan to take. It is your boat and you can do as you wish. Good luck.

BTW - This is in no way an iboats Moderator opinion. This my personal opinion.

 

[Watermann]

Hey how about them Mariners!!! :lol:

 

[Nismoron]

Go ahead and close this one... ;-)

 

[theoldwizard1]

..., there is no way to keep water from under the floor of a tin boat. Many have tried some exotic methods,

I concur !

The same is true for any boat, regardless of material. Spray, rain and snow melt need a clear path to travel to the deepest part of the boat (typically near the transom in small boats) where the bilge pump is located. All small boats with floors have a drain plug in the transom so that when they are stored properly with the bow up, water can drain, if it can get to to where the drain plug is !

Maybe someday small boat manufacturers will come up with an alternative to pour in foam that provides better drainage and is cost effective (from a manufacturing standpoint).

 

[jigngrub]

BTW: Nautolex REQUIRES fastening along the edges. JigNGrub will be along shortly to extoll the virtues of Nautolex and his preferred installation method, which I think has quite a bit of merit. Other methods do too. He rolls the vinyl over the ply edge and fastens it to the back of the plywood BEFORE putting it in the boat. Then fastens the deck down to the stringers and etc THRU the vinyl. He also uses lots of aluminum angle and flat stock to cover any exposed edges AND the joint between 2 sheets of ply. His resto has LOTS of great pix of how he recommends doing it. There are other ways, which also have merit. It'll be up to you to sift thru the offered suggestions and decide which works best for you, your budget, project, timeline and skill level. (Jig will also recommend epoxy w/out glass for the deck).

Thanks for the kind words JBC!

If you're still interested in the Nautolex Nis, here's a link to my thread:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...-repair/521750-97-tracker-pro-deep-v-facelift

I haven't heard of anyone else not being able to find the Nautolex so it should still be available, and as WM mentioned most of us get it from Defender (google it).

I used the Nautolex in my boat because it's a fishing boat and I get my share of fish related filth on my deck. Lots of catfish slime and fish blood. Catfishfish slime will dry up and flake off of the vinyl if left long enough or on a hot day. Fish blood will dry on it and wash away without staining. The vinyl is stupid easy to clean and very durable. You will not regret installing it if you choose to use it.

Epoxy resin is the only thing you need to seal your deck with, it hardens the surface of the decking making a very durable backing for the vinyl.

If you have any questions about my methods of installing the vinyl feel free to reply to my thread.

 

[tgp***]

Try Rochford Supply. It was lowest price on Nutolex I found.
http://www.rochfordsupply.com/shop/...ing/Nautolex_Marine_Vinyl_Flooring/index.html

 

[laurentide]

The 5\8 was springy because you haven't fastened it yet. And don't the knee braces just tie into the keel at the stern? 3\4 will fit no problem...all of these guys have been there and done that.

I used Jig's method, and it's very solid--like solid oak flooring--with epoxy and nautolex over 5\8".

 

[Nismoron]

I'm not worried about the knee braces. The 3/4 will not fit under the bulkhead for the front compartment or under the bulkhead that makes up the front doors of the splashwell. You can cram it under either one, but it warps the panel all out of shape. Once Epoxy, glass cloth, and whatever floor finish is added, it is not even going to come close to fitting.

 

[laurentide]

Are you not removing that stuff before laying the deck? Have you checked out the Starcraft completed resto threads at the top of the subforum?

 

[Nismoron]

Are you not removing that stuff before laying the deck? Have you checked out the Starcraft completed resto threads at the top of the subforum?

No. They are riveted in place with solid rivets. No point in removing perfectly good through hull rivets. Besides, if they were removed, then they would not go back in the same location with a thicker floor. They would then not line up with the "shelf" that supports the front deck. And the rear panels would not fit between the floor and the splash well rim. Much easier to use the proper thickness floor.