RANT !! Why do they build them that way ?????

theoldwizard1

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So I had to remove the seat base from the rear casting deck of my 2002 Starfire 170. The other seat vases are held down by 6 #12 2" wood screws. Perhaps nit the best, especially when the floor start to go.

But the seat base on the rear beck uses 6 #12 2" MACHINE SCREWS. Yes, that plywood deck rests on a piece of aluminum (probably part of the splashwell) but machine screws would pull out of that ! So, somehow, they used stainless nylock nuts ! Sure holds that base on well, but getting the screws out was a B ! T C H !! Obviously, I can not put it back together like this.

I am thinking of putting a piece of 1/2" thick aluminum bar between pairs of holes and running the machine screw into that. I can drill a small hole and put a #8 screw down from the top (it would be hidden by the seat base) to hold that bar in place.

Any other suggestions ?
 

GA_Boater

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No ideas, only empathy, Wiz. I think designers should be be made to work in a shop as part of their education.
 

laurentide

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I've learned from New England automotive repair that sometimes the angle grinder or dremel with a cutoff disc will save a lot of time and heartache.
 

DLNorth

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So they used machine screws and nuts, seems like that would be the preferred method. Or don't you have access to the under side of the cross piece?
 

DLNorth

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Never mind, just saw your other post about getting in. Couldn't image a boat that didn't give you access to under the well.
 

Scott Danforth

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You guys over looked the obvious answer. The clown assembling most likely ran out of self taping screws and used nylocs. Most engineers to not spec hardware smaller than 1/2" in diameter, or on things non-critical like lighting, seating, interior, or trim
 

Watermann

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In the factory pic in your sig pic it looks like the back seat base is round. I'm trying to imagine the bar of AL working in that instance? On my SN I used SS T nuts with the teeth and used machine screws to secure the seat bases. If you can reach under and push the nut into the hole and thread the screw in it will tighten down on it's own and stay in place if ever taken apart again. You can also use blue locktite in the threads if you're worried about them backing out. On the AL part you can use the T nut without the teeth and butter the flange with 5200 so it stays there..


51%2BzmM%2B3DXL._SX342_.jpg
 
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DLNorth

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I don't know what industry you were in, but in my 40 years of being in design engineering, NOTHING is ever not specified.

The clown assembling most likely ran out of self taping screws and used nylocs. Most engineers to not spec hardware smaller than 1/2" in diameter, or on things non-critical like lighting, seating, interior, or trim

With that said, it's hard to second guess why/what decisions are made during a product development process. But, this is not the place for self tapping screws into sheet metal. Without an easy access, there should have been some kind of attached thread to support the load.

Dan
 

theoldwizard1

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So they used machine screws and nuts, seems like that would be the preferred method. Or don't you have access to the under side of the cross piece?
No access, unless there is a quick way to remove the vertical piece I am now asking about.
 

theoldwizard1

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You guys over looked the obvious answer. The clown assembling most likely ran out of self taping screws and used nylocs. Most engineers to not spec hardware smaller than 1/2" in diameter, or on things non-critical like lighting, seating, interior, or trim
Self tapers into that plywood/aluminum "sandwich" would probably no be strong enough. Of course they are only using wood screws on the seat bases that go in the floor.
 

theoldwizard1

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In the factory pic in your sig pic it looks like the back seat base is round. I'm trying to imagine the bar of AL working in that instance?
I enlarged the hole for the seat base "cup" and can now get my hand in the. If you take a 6" bar of aluminum, it will span between 2 hole. Temporarily clamp the bar and drill and tap from the top. If you put a third much smaller flat head screw in from the top (covered by the base) then you can drop the base in place and install new SS machine screw.

On my SN I used SS T nuts with the teeth and used machine screws to secure the seat bases. If you can reach under and push the nut into the hole
Kind of hard to push those T-nuts into the aluminum under the plywood back deck !

This would be great for the other seat bases except for
  • The hole for the seat base "cup" is too small for my fat hand
  • The area under the floor is of course full of foam. Much would have to be chopped out to reach far enough over to push the T-nut in
 

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DLNorth

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If you are not going to remove the forward panel, FWIW, I like your idea of adding some bars to the underside.

As for installing them, make them as you describe, and add the 3rd, center hole in the platform.
Then run 2 pieces of string through each bolt hole, run them out the center access hole and each through the threaded holes in the ends of the bars, then run each string back through the access hole and out the bolt holes in the platform.

At this point you have the bar with 2 strings that run into the access hole and out the bolt holes, with 4 ends.
Holding the strings, slide the bar into the access hole and position in place under the platform.
Install the middle screw and take up the slack.
Still holding 1 string, remove the 2ed string and add a temp screw to align the bar.
Remove the 1st string and tighten the middle screw.

Repeat with the other 2 bars. When all three are in and aligned and tight, reinstall your seat base.
 

theoldwizard1

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Another pic. The wood screw is from a seat base mounted to the floor. The machine screw is for the seat base mounted to the rear casting deck.

Ragged hole is from trying to cut a round hole with a reciprocating saw !
 

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will w.

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Pretty sure my SFM had lock nuts under the rear casting deck. I was able to reach them when needed. You don't have a storage compartment you could remove for easy access?
 

theoldwizard1

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Pretty sure my SFM had lock nuts under the rear casting deck. I was able to reach them when needed. You don't have a storage compartment you could remove for easy access?
Yes there is a storage compartment on the starboard side and the battery compartment on the port side, but it is not obvious how those come apart.

Please checkout my other recent post Working under the back deck/splashwell

Maybe there is something you can add on how to remove the vertical panel in front of the rear casting deck.
 
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