Stringer repairs and embedding reinforcements with epoxy...

[FrankenCub]

So I've been reading plenty of threads where stringers and such have been cracked, and it seems the general consensus is to embed reinforcements with epoxy if it is in an area where it won't take impacts. If it's a possible issue with the epoxy popping from an impact, have you guys thought of using something like Fusor auto body adhesive ?

That stuff won't pop loose. I used to run tow trucks for a body shop and got to see first hand some extremely serious damage up close. All the new cars are bonded together with this stuff and it holds better than welded bodies. In fact, certain areas of cars have to be welded where they want the body to give and break apart because if bonded, it won't. Fusor is quite expensive and uses it's own gun to dispense it, but 3M also has equivalent adhesive and is available in self dispensing tubes and is less expensive. This summer I need to get started on a restoration of my '71 GMC and repair panels will be bonded in making a waterproof joint.

Any thoughts on this for boat repair ?

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/lord-fusor-adhesives-c-1071.aspx

 

[jbcurt00]

Your talking about tin boats, right

Some use 3M 5200 instead of epoxy. Not the same as Fusor and not nearly as expensive.

You might dig up the 3M equivlent you mention. I'd be interested in what you're referring to.

A few might have access to the Fusor and similar products, but not a lot, so even if cost isnt a factor, getting it is.

Same thing often happens when someone scores commercial paint and asks if its a good choice. Likely few or none of us have ever used it, so hard to say its a good choice, but typically the cost is prohibitive for most DIY Starcraft fans.

Digging in and asking lots of questions pre-acquisition is a great investment of time and effort. Nice work on that front.

But I have to caution you about CL surfing and posting SCs before you drag your 1st one home. Dangerous business that. You may find another, then another that you cant stop thinking about rebuilding.

In short order you go from no boats to 4.

Ask my Admiral how I know..... :llama:

 

[FrankenCub]

The acquisition of it really isn't bad, many online auto body stores carry it, and the 3M stuff can be bought on Amazon and many parts stores like NAPA and CarQuest. I completely agree with the paint situation, much of the new paint has different needs than the old tried and trued parts store paint, many needing fresh air respirator systems as the normal canisters won't work. I am a bit spoiled in that area as I already have that equipment and a really nice Binks gun.

Maybe I'll be the guinea pig when I bring the Chief home, if there needs to be any such repairs I'll use either the Fusor or 3M adhesive. Maybe yet someone wilol chime in that may have contracting views of using it on boats though. They do tend to flex around more than a car, well unless the car is a NY car riddled with cancer

My wife is pretty good at keeping me in check with how many toys I bring home, other than guns. She has no input there
I wouldn't mind having a couple SC though, ya know, different water takes a different boat. Have big water within an hour of me and small water within 2 minutes. Gotta have a gas sipping I/O and the smell of a 2 stroke burning good oil.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...dy Adhesive&qid=1454362312&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

 

[FrankenCub]

Here's another link, has the applicator 6 pack of nozzles and adhesive. The applicator is a bit expensive at $34 but you'd only buy it once, and there is a lot of repairs in that 200ml tube of panel bonding adhesive. Might be a bit overkill for the every day DIYer I guess but the permanence of the repair may be worth the extra coin spent.

One of the guys on a truck forum I'm on glued two pieces of metal together and put it between the towers of a frame machine, he said it took 40 tons to pull it apart lol.

 

[Watermann]

Sounds like some tough stuff for sure. They used that auto glue to put the door hinges on the body of 1990's models of chevy trucks. The ones they sent to Alaska the doors fell off when it got sub zero and that put an end to using it for that application.

The locktitie marine epoxy I used for my SN ribs is not recommended for flexible material but I wouldn't call ribs with splints bolted together flexible. Yeah impacts with objects that don't move like rocks, that would cause serious damage to the hull and isn't something we see a whole lot of with these boats being restored. Those boats find their way to being scraped I would imagine. 3 seasons of bone dry bilge so far on my repairs and if they had failed it would be leaking. 5200 is so runny and takes a week to cure so I'm not sure it would be a good alternative without it being dammed up.

 

[FrankenCub]

Never heard of the doors falling That would suck lol. Would think there would have to be more to it than that though, if the temp extremes were causing it you'd think the rest of the cab and box would start separating anywhere it wasn't spot welded. I guess it's possible though, their sub zero temps last much much longer than it does here in NY...thankfully. Last year I was riding snowmobile in -50 temps, this year it's +50 lmao.

You have a good point on the flexibility, things may move around a bit but where it's bolted all together it's certainly not going to allow that much movement. The cure time would be a plus if you want to get things up and going. This may just be an issue like auto paint, I've been lucky enough to have had it at my disposal for use so it's what I reach for.

 

[Watermann]

Maybe such a small surface area being slammed repeatedly at 40 below, I dunno but my 1994 Chev truck still has it's glued on hinges. :joyous:

I wish it was 50+ here

 

[FrankenCub]

I wonder if the trucks affected were parked in heated garages at night ? Most everyone I know around here has or had Chevy trucks of that vintage and never once a problem. Even seeing them in the body shop from side impacts. Could be going from -40 to -60 then to a +50 garage made the difference for them to fail. Like fleet trucks for utility companies.
If it took 40 tons to tear scraps apart on a test so I'm betting the severe temp swing in a short period did it. Newest I've owned was an '89 Chevy p/u, I'm not sure if our '01 Blazer has them glued or bolted. Never looked lol.

 

[ondarvr]

Methacrylate adhesives have been used for many years to bond boats and many other thing together, it holds up well and saves time. The liners and stringer systems on many brands of boats are glued in place. Like anything else, done correctly it holds up well, done poorly and it can fail. Expect to spend maybe $50.00 for a 400ml cartridge. It's a two component product and the caulking type gun used to apply it can be from $70.00 to $100.00

I sell it to boat builders.

 

[jbcurt00]

Methacrylate adhesives have been used for many years to bond boats and many other thing together, it holds up well and saves time. The liners and stringer systems on many brands of boats are glued in place. Like anything else, done correctly it holds up well, done poorly and it can fail. Expect to spend maybe $50.00 for a 400ml cartridge. It's a two component product and the caulking type gun used to apply it can be from $70.00 to $100.00

I sell it to boat builders.

Tin boat builders?

Or fiberglass?

I suspect the latter, although he didnt answer my 1st question in my reply, Franken was asking about tin boat rebuilding

 

[ondarvr]

Both, although It's far more common in FG. Welders don't like being put out of work by a guy with caulking gun. On thinner riveted boats it can be stronger than the surrounding aluminum, still hasn't caught on that well though.

 

[FrankenCub]

Tin boat builders?

Or fiberglass?

I suspect the latter, although he didnt answer my 1st question in my reply, Franken was asking about tin boat rebuilding

Sorry I didn't answer it directly, I did mention when I bring my Chieftain home though. When I had my other glass boat I used PL, but that was before I went to work for the body shop.

 

[jbcurt00]

No worries, I knew what you meant, I wasnt sure Ondarvr knew which

Thanks for clarification though

And in Ondarvrs example, the stringer system is likely adhered via that stuff he mentioned and done, no further glass work.

In your rebuild w PL, I'd bet you glassed over the stringers after bedding them in PL.

 

[FrankenCub]

Methacrylate adhesives have been used for many years to bond boats and many other thing together, it holds up well and saves time. The liners and stringer systems on many brands of boats are glued in place. Like anything else, done correctly it holds up well, done poorly and it can fail. Expect to spend maybe $50.00 for a 400ml cartridge. It's a two component product and the caulking type gun used to apply it can be from $70.00 to $100.00

I sell it to boat builders.

Well that's cool, I didn't know boat builders were using the stuff. I haven't personally used anything but the Fusor brand, only because that's when the shop bought by the case, but most of the guys on the Chevy truck forum I'm on use the 3M brand and say it's just as good as the more expensive Fusor. Some of the wrecks I've looked over, the surrounding metal tore without a hint of failure from the joint it's self. Good stuff I think. Of course as you say, when applied correctly. I'd hate to have to repair a glass boat built with this stuff, such as pulling the cap.

 

[FrankenCub]

No worries, I knew what you meant, I wasnt sure Ondarvr knew which

Thanks for clarification though

And in Ondarvrs example, the stringer system is likely adhered via that stuff he mentioned and done, no further glass work.

In your rebuild w PL, I'd bet you glassed over the stringers after bedding them in PL.

I was fortunate with my glass boats before the one I have now, no stringer work was needed. One was just some of the built in side panels coming loose and the other was a cap that wouldn't stay put. Finally pulled the rub rail, lifted the cap and glued it down.
The Renken I have now, decided to strip it and part it on CL and fleabay. I'll put the proceeds towards the Chieftain rehab
I'm done with glassers lol.

 

[GA_Boater]

It's possible the Chief isn't a candidate to glue the stringers. The flat stringers are riveted to the top of the round ribs and there is very little surface contact area for the stickum to adhere to.

Some of the newer, larger Starcraft tin boats do the stringers a bit differently with the stringer riveted directly to the hull. But do you want to drill out a mess of rivets just to glue it back down and re-rivet to fill the holes?

 

[FrankenCub]

It's possible the Chief isn't a candidate to glue the stringers. The flat stringers are riveted to the top of the round ribs and there is very little surface contact area for the stickum to adhere to.

Some of the newer, larger Starcraft tin boats do the stringers a bit differently with the stringer riveted directly to the hull. But do you want to drill out a mess of rivets just to glue it back down and re-rivet to fill the holes?

Ahhhh some wrong wording on my part I was referring to the ribs that some have had cracks in and riveted plates to for reinforcement. My bad, wrong terminology.

 

[GA_Boater]

Does she have cracked ribs? Wait til you drag her home, pull the deck and clean her out before surmising you have cracked ribs. Of all the Starcraft tinnies rebuilt here, very few had cracked ribs. Plenty of cracked knee braces, splashwells and chines, but not many ribs. Just sayin'.

 

[FrankenCub]

This has pretty much been for speculation really. Mainly curious what everyone's thoughts were for using it for repairs if I do encounter any areas that may be of issue. It does however appear to have had hull stiffeners installed, which from what I've seen here so far came at a later production year. So wondering if a dealer did it as preventative effort, or was there a problem they fixed first. Guess I'll know for sure once the floor is up. I figure the more prepared I am when it comes to tear down I will be one step ahead. I have a habit of going at any of my projects this way. Sure helps to keep my mind occupied when I can't be working on something lol.

 

[GA_Boater]

I understand following the Boy Scout Motto, FC. But in this case you need to know what you are dealing with first.

As I said in the other thread, I know of one that received a factory stiffener retrofit. I think it is a 1974 model, not positive on that.

I'm sure there are places the glue will work, but on the flip side, there are plenty where it's the wrong product. Vehicles using the adhesive were designed for it. Our old tin boats weren't. Innovation is a good thing, but we have to be aware of limitations when trying new things on these oldies. Sometime the fix can incur other problems. That's all I'm really trying to say.