Help educate me some on the Chieftains please :)

FrankenCub

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Tomorrow I'm going to look at a Chieftain that a friend of mine has at his place. I know it needs floor and transom, he tells me the inline 6 runs great, I have no reason not to trust him on that. I have seen plenty of talk here about cracks in the blocks though, it would sound as they are notorious for that, in boats. I've never seen it in the same car/truck block though. Odd to me. What else should I look at specific to this boat ?
I've never owned a tinny before, always glassers.

This one has the camper canvas (does need some stitching but I worked in an upholstery shop), downriggers, cushions have been stored inside. And from what I've seen of it in casual looking over the past many years, looks in good condition otherwise. But as mentioned, I know nothing of aluminum boats.

I was told to make an offer on it as it's just going to end up sitting around, if we come to a mutual pleasing price I think I'm gonna strip the Renken I just bought and use the proceeds towards the Chieftain. The Volvo Penta drive should be of use to someone, as well as the trailer.
 

GA_Boater

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It may be worthless if the ownership can't be cleared up as you asked in the other thread. Don't sell the Renken parts until you know can get it your name.

The blocks crack because of poor winterization methods. Check for water in the oil by running it and see if the oil looks like a milkshake,
 

jbcurt00

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What length Chieftain?

Read thru the larger boat topics.

Car/truck motors in cold climates have antifreeze in them, or yes, they do crack.

Boat motors typically dont.

If the boat has been sitting in NY, it needed to be winterized after it was last used.

Chine, hull and rib end cracks is common in poorly maintained boats that have soft decks and are run anyway.

Lots of great info in here.

What year Chieftain
 

FrankenCub

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It may be worthless if the ownership can't be cleared up as you asked in the other thread. Don't sell the Renken parts until you know can get it your name.

The blocks crack because of poor winterization methods. Check for water in the oil by running it and see if the oil looks like a milkshake,

jb found a PDF on the NY DMV website that I didn't see that gives me something to go by and I'll call them and see what they say first. Don't want a boat I can't register. The Renken I have has all necessary paperwork, and is actually still registered till '16. I won't part it unless I'll be ok getting a regi for the Chieftain.

I assumed it had to be a poor winterization issue but wasn't sure. I've had plenty of those engines in old trucks and a couple cars, tough old birds with basic mainanance. I had an old Buick with that engine, radiator would never hold water and I was too poor to replace it so just filled it with water. Had to take a propane torch to the water pump to thaw it out so it would turn over in the mornings then drive away lol. Drove it like that all winter the last year of it's life :D
 

FrankenCub

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What length Chieftain?

Read thru the larger boat topics.

Car/truck motors in cold climates have antifreeze in them, or yes, they do crack.

Boat motors typically dont.

If the boat has been sitting in NY, it needed to be winterized after it was last used.

Chine, hull and rib end cracks is common in poorly maintained boats that have soft decks and are run anyway.

Lots of great info in here.

What year Chieftain

I'm not sure of the length and year, looking at pics seem to lead me to '74. I'm hoping the HID is still there, then I'll know for sure of the year. I've eyed this boat for so long and never thought to look into it until I started reading the threads here. Now I'm really starting to love the lines they have. That and I wouldn't really feel comfortable in my Renken if I get caught out in a storm blowing in. Did that in a similar sized boat about 15 years ago on Cayuga Lake and it scared the hell outta me. Decided I need a bigger boat for the rough stuff just in case. Don't want any repeats.

I'm pretty sure it was winterized by this owner, I've known them a long time and they've been boaters/gearheads even longer. Now the PO before them, well no bets there.

I'll be sure to look close for cracks. I do have access to a nice Miller TIG but would hate to see a lot of cracks.
 

laurentide

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On the hull, you can fix just about any cracks yourself with little more investment than your time. From what I've seen here, the preferred method is riveted, sealed patches as opposed to tig welding, which can make the thin aluminum brittle. But hopefully you won't have any to deal with.

I'm also on a big northeast lake, and my 18' Chieftain is the perfect trailer boat for non-summer fishing/boating. I can't speak to the inboard as I've always been an outboard owner. The big disadvantage of the i/o's is that you have to winterize them when the weather goes below freezing, and for me that's half the fishing season. If that's not a concern for you I'd jump in with both feet!

Good luck getting the paperwork sorted.
 

Watermann

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There isn't much specific to Chiefs over any other SC boats of the same era. Make sure you have all the parts and pieces, end caps are especially tough to find and easy to loose. The 165 IL6 is a great motor as you know and it came in the 21' Chiefs. The 25' came with 185 V8s and the 18s came with the 120 4 banger...

oh and mine has the 205 HP V6 that I think is one of the all time great GM motors. :D
 

FrankenCub

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On the hull, you can fix just about any cracks yourself with little more investment than your time. From what I've seen here, the preferred method is riveted, sealed patches as opposed to tig welding, which can make the thin aluminum brittle. But hopefully you won't have any to deal with.

I'm also on a big northeast lake, and my 18' Chieftain is the perfect trailer boat for non-summer fishing/boating. I can't speak to the inboard as I've always been an outboard owner. The big disadvantage of the i/o's is that you have to winterize them when the weather goes below freezing, and for me that's half the fishing season. If that's not a concern for you I'd jump in with both feet!

Good luck getting the paperwork sorted.

I went to look the Chieftain over today. It's a '74 and the hull looks really good. I didn't see any cracks and also seems to have the hull stiffeners already as there's an extra row of rivets down each side. My friend said his mother does have the regi somewhere or his father never would have bought it in the first place, he passed away about 5 years ago. He also said that after they drained the engine before storage they filled the block with antifreeze to be sure it wouldn't freeze.

edit: Good to know about welding, I would have went right to town with the TIG to fix any cracks.
 
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FrankenCub

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There isn't much specific to Chiefs over any other SC boats of the same era. Make sure you have all the parts and pieces, end caps are especially tough to find and easy to loose. The 165 IL6 is a great motor as you know and it came in the 21' Chiefs. The 25' came with 185 V8s and the 18s came with the 120 4 banger...

oh and mine has the 205 HP V6 that I think is one of the all time great GM motors. :D

It looks like it is complete and unmolested, original everything ! Of course in need of all new wood but it's missing nothing. I will upload some pics in a bit, need to pick up my granddaughter shortly.
Being 21' will much better suit our needs !
 

laurentide

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If it has the stiffeners then it's either late 70's or added by a previous owner. Mine is a '74 and does not have them. 21' is a nice big boat and would make a great family cruiser or fishing rig.

Someone here probably knows what year they started adding the stiffeners. I know that all the 18' Chieftains from '74 had red vinyl on the bunks.
 
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FrankenCub

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If I'm reading the tag right it's a '74. But I could be wrong. My thoughts on the hull stiffeners is really only based on what I've seen here in pictures so I could also be wrong there too lol. Here's a couple pics, and I'll leave a link to the rest of them. Hopefully they'll be big enough.



I think this should be big enough to see the row of rivets that gives me that idea.

 

jbcurt00

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Yep, 1974
HIN Search results:

Success!?STR82708M74F is of the standard HIN type called Model-Year HIN. If you are buying this boat/craft then you should get the?boat history?and?Boat Insurance from the BoatU.S. Program.

STR HIN DecoderOur HULL ID Decoder breaks down the Hull identification number into the following information:

The HIN or CIN you have entered meets the Model-Year HIN format. It might also be a type that contains the country code and thus the boat comes from USA or Other . The serial number of the HIN is 82708 and is set by the boat builder. This boat or vessel has a Certification Date of (74) and a Model Year of 74 with month of build (January) based on the formatting of your hull_identification_number (HIN) .

The manufacturer identification code (MIC) of your craft identification number (CIN or HIN) is STR. This MIC (STR) stands for the company name Starcraft which is currently In Business. This boat manufacturer has other company names (STR sometimes goes by these name(s) Monark, Spectrum, Fisher, or Northwood.

This company (Starcraft) is owned by David Frey and is located at PO BOX 65 in NEW PARIS state of IN. It manufactured this vessel and placed you HIN or CIN on the hull. The Parent Company for this boat maker is SMOKER CRAFT, INC. (SMK). Starcraft has started making boats, yachts and other watercraft as of 06/04/1973 0:00.

Make sure to compare the date of boat manufacturing with the dates in which the company was actually in business.

The US Coast guard provides this comment about this watercraft manufacturer: See (dem) O'day Using This Code 86&87. See Xdy,ray,cab,sur Also Has Fmc From Fisher Marine, Building Utility, V-bottom Fishing (rivetted), Pontoons & Fiberglass Boats At This Location; See (bmd) (fmc) & (bff). Northwood Was Private Label Mfg 1991-1993. 970107 Starcraft No Longer Owned By Brunswick; Acquired By Employees. See Also (plx) & (mnx). Starcraft Marine Llc Produces Starcraft & Monark; Tracker Marine Produces Fisher & Spectrum. 04/28/2001 Updated Per Rni. Note: Starcraft Shares Some Resources With Smoker/sylvan (smk) & (syl). Str, Along With Mnk And Plx Merged With Smk On May 08. Also Changed Poc From Merle Graybill To David Frey. All Production Moved From Topeka To New Paris, In..

More details at the?US Coast Guard.

If you are purchasing this boat/hull then get the?Boat History here?or the?BoatFax Reportto complement it.

There are 7 boat Recalls for Starcraft your vessel:

Starcraft Boat Recalls for your HIN and MIC: 7.

1-starcraft Marine Has Recalled Str14595b808 (hin Or Cin) Due To Ventilation And And This Boat Recall Is Closed. It Applied To 104 Boats From The 2008 1900 Io Model Boats. The Boat Recalls Applied On 21/02/2008 And Was Closed On 16/09/2010 With The Following Comment: Natural Ventilation System Supply And Exhaust Openings Must Meet Minimum Aggregate Regulations. 4/16/08 Rec'd Dnr. 6/104 Corrected. 26/104 Corrected 9/18/2008. 34/104 Corrected 1/12/09. Cur Rec'd 3/23/09. 37/104 Corrected. Emailed Dave Frey And Left Vm On 8/18/09 Jdh Asking For Update Within One Week. Recd Cur 6 8/25/09 38/104 Corrected Next Cur Due 11/25/09 Jdh. Recd Cur 7 39/104 Corr 2/10/10, Next Cur 5/12/10 Jd. Emailed Mnf To Remind Him Abotu Cur Due Jdh 5/20/10. Cur 8 Recd. 38/104 Corr, Req One More Cur Jdh 6/2/10. Emailed Mnf 9/13/10 To Remind About Cur Jdh. Recd Cur 9, 9/16/10 Jdh- No Change, Mnf Requests Closure Again Due To No Change In Last Year. Campaign No Longer Monitored 9/16/10 Jdh Pre Plc.

2-starcraft Marine Llc Has Recalled (hin Or Cin) Due To Fuel Fill Fitting Cracks And Fuel Fill Fitting Cracks And This Boat Recall Is Closed. It Applied To 1501 Boats From The 1995 See File Model Boats. The Boat Recalls Applied On 13/09/1995 And Was Closed On 04/03/1999 With The Following Comment: Both Starcraft (str) And Fisher Marine (fmc).starcraft Stardeck 200 Dlx, 240 Dlx And 180, 1700, 1709, 1710, 1800ss, 1810, 1810ss, 1811, 2010. 2010ss, 2012, 2210ss, 2212, Starship 2000, Tp 160 T, Tp 160, Tp 170, Tp 180 . Fisher Marine Freedom 200 Dlx, 240 Dlx, 220 Fish, 260 Grande, Fr200s. Monark Sun Spa 200, 240, 260, Pro 1800, 1800dc, 1800fs. Spectrum 20 Cruiser Dlx, 24 Cruiser Dlx/ Cur 1 Rcvd 01 Feb 96. Cur 2, Cur 2 Rcvd 30 Apr 96, Cur 3 Rcvd 6 Aug 96 - Rjd 11/96 Rcvd Cur 4. 02/97 Rcvd Cur 5. 05/97 Cur 6 Rcvd. Cur 07 Rcvd 08/97, Cur 08 Rcvd 11/97, Cur 09 Rcvd. Cur 10 Rcvd 6/98, Cur 11 Rcvd 8/98, Cur 12 Rcvd 11/98 Closed

3-starcraft Marine Llc Has Recalled Str & Mnx (hin Or Cin) Due To Nav Light - Height And And This Boat Recall Is Closed. It Applied To 104 Boats From The 1999 Deckboat Model Boats. The Boat Recalls Applied On 17/02/1999 And Was Closed On 25/01/2001 With The Following Comment: 990224 Sent Forms. All-around White Not High Enough; Will Not Show 360 Deg With Canvas Top Up. 990325 Dnr Rcvd. 990607 Cur 1 Rcvd. 990908 Cur 2 Rcvd. 991208 Cur 3 Rcvd. 000307 Cur 4 Rcvd. 000619 Cur 5 Rcvd. 000914 Cur 6 Rcvd. 001207 Cur 7 Rcvd.

4-starcraft Marine Llc Has Recalled Stra25tah596 (hin Or Cin) Due To Safe Load: Max Wt And Safe Load: Pers And This Boat Recall Is Closed. It Applied To 50 Boats From The 1996 12 Sk Model Boats. The Boat Recalls Applied On 29/07/1997 And Was Closed On With The Following Comment:

5-starcraft Marine Has Recalled Str85114a505 (hin Or Cin) Due To Ventilation And Ventilation And This Boat Recall Is Closed. It Applied To 556 Boats From The 2005 Aurora 2000 Io Model Boats. The Boat Recalls Applied On 03/03/2005 And Was Closed On 24/10/2007 With The Following Comment: Dn Issue 1.the Natural Supply And Exhaust Ventilation Area Should Be A Minimum Of 12.96 Sq.in. Each. Two 3-inch Supply Openings And Two 3-inch Exhaust Hoses Were Installed For An Aggregate Supply Opening Of 14.2 Sq.in And An Aggregate Exhaust Opening Of 14.2 Sq.in. However, Decorative Grills Installed On Both The Supply And Exhaust Openings Reduced This Area From 14.2 Sq.in. To 8.3 Sq.in. Fp Issue 2. An Opening In The Bulkhead And Deck Located Between The Fuel Tankand Engine Compartments Exceeded 2% Of That Bulkhead And Deck Area. 050404 Assigned 050016s To Smokercraft Portion Of This Campaign. Rec'd Cur 344/556 Units Corrected. 10/24/07 Campaign Closed After No Progress For 6 Months.

6-starcraft Has Recalled (hin Or Cin) Due To Electrical Bonding Wire And At Fuel Fill And This Boat Recall Is Closed. It Applied To 451 Boats From The 1992 171, 171, 191, 211 Model Boats. The Boat Recalls Applied On 13/08/1992 And Was Closed On 22/11/1996 With The Following Comment: Risk Of Static Spark. Letter From Mfg 09/16/96. 450 Boats Identified. 407 First Purchasers Notified 113 Boats Found To Have The Defect 113 Corrected.

7-starcraft Marine Has Recalled Us-str98540b707 (hin Or Cin) Due To Ventilation And And This Boat Recall Is Closed. It Applied To 34 Boats From The 2007 Starstep 200 Inboard Deck Boat Model Boats. The Boat Recalls Applied On 05/03/2007 And Was Closed On 01/03/2010 With The Following Comment: The Engine Compartment Natural Supply And Exhaust Ventilation Openings Were Of Insufficient Size For The Compartment Net Volume. The Gasoline Engine Space Was Open To Additional Compartments Forward Of The Engine Space. The Total Net Compartment Volume Of Approximately 124 Cubic Feet Requires A Minimum Aggregate Cross-sectional Area Of 16.0 Square Inshes For Both Natural Supply And Natural Exhaust. Two 3-inch Supply Vents And Two 3-inch Exhaust Ducts Were Installed, Which Provided An Aggregate Opening Of 14.2 Sq Inches For The Supply And 14.2 Square Inches For The Exhaust. Hull Vent Covers Reduced The Aggregate Opening Area To 11.0 Square Inches For Both Supply And Exhaust. Rec'd Dnr 4-16-07. 3/34 Corrected. Next Cur Due 07-16-07. Emailed Dave Frey 8/18/09 Jdh Asking For Update Within A Week. Recd Cur 8/25/09 32/34 Corrected Jdh. Recommend Closure. Spoke To Plc Concernign Status Of Campaign Jdh 9/17/09. Emailed Plc 2/19/10 To See If Response Fell Through Cracks Jdh. Plc Reported Having Enought O Close Case But No Dnr On File. Emailed D Frey To See If He Had It And As Of 3/1/10 He Is Looking Jdh. Dave Frey Emailed Dnr, Closed Per Plc Recommendations Jdh 3/1/10.
 

laurentide

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Looks like a worthy rebuild candidate! I believe the rivets you referenced are for the lateral upper bow ribs:

IMG_0316.jpg


NRE1b0s.jpg


Mine's an 18'er so the location is higher.

Great boat!
 
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jbcurt00

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W the HIN and the Reg# your buddy's mom should apply for title or duplicate title and registration THEN sell it to you.

You could agree to buy it when that stuff comes thru and take possession of the boat. Until you actually buy it they'd still have title and ownership so I wouldnt do much beyond demo or seeing if theres any spark or fire at tje motor.
 

oldhaven

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From the looks of your slideshow you will probably be doing a lot of down to the bare hull restoration, with all the typical work well documented here, but on what could be a solid boat. You will not know until you get into it, but it seems like you know what you are doing. There are always some surprises hidden under the furniture. As you can see documented here, these Chiefs can be really nice projects and worth the effort. I feel like it is the same thing as restoring a 60's or 70's classic auto, and the value is in the vintage appeal and yet they are very functional with modern upgrades.. I'll follow your progress if you decide to pull the trigger, and you can count on help from the pioneers who took the arrows.

Ron
 

FrankenCub

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Looks like a worthy rebuild candidate! I believe the rivets you referenced are for the lateral upper bow ribs:


Mine's an 18'er so the location is higher.

Great boat!

The row of rivets I was looking at don't stand out well in the pics, I cropped and resized part of one image. They stop going forward just under the fuel fill vent and the line of rivets isn't really straight, but they are real rivets and not pop rivets. They seem to be in the same area that I've others here. Dealer upgrade maybe ?

 

FrankenCub

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W the HIN and the Reg# your buddy's mom should apply for title or duplicate title and registration THEN sell it to you.

You could agree to buy it when that stuff comes thru and take possession of the boat. Until you actually buy it they'd still have title and ownership so I wouldnt do much beyond demo or seeing if theres any spark or fire at tje motor.

That's what my buddy said yesterday, they shouldn't have an issue getting it. I will still contact the DMV in the meantime just cause I never see boats of this style around here unless they carry a premium price tag for one that needs to be gutted anyway lol.
 

FrankenCub

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From the looks of your slideshow you will probably be doing a lot of down to the bare hull restoration, with all the typical work well documented here, but on what could be a solid boat. You will not know until you get into it, but it seems like you know what you are doing. There are always some surprises hidden under the furniture. As you can see documented here, these Chiefs can be really nice projects and worth the effort. I feel like it is the same thing as restoring a 60's or 70's classic auto, and the value is in the vintage appeal and yet they are very functional with modern upgrades.. I'll follow your progress if you decide to pull the trigger, and you can count on help from the pioneers who took the arrows.

Ron

I've read every thread here on Chieftains, some multiple times :D So now I got a pretty good idea of what I may find and the possibilities of the finished product, some amazing rebuilds have been done ! Classic cars/trucks have been my thing pretty much forever, I love them. My daily driver is a '71 GMC pick up. I despise the newer vehicles. I don't think they look good and the need of a computer to fix them is ridiculous. I like the feeling that if I break down on the highway with my truck, I can fix it and get going again. Having a $200 scanner just to read the computer in my wife's Blazer just bothers me lol.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to talk to my friend's mother today and see if we can come to a deal ;)
 

laurentide

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The row of rivets I was looking at don't stand out well in the pics, I cropped and resized part of one image. They stop going forward just under the fuel fill vent and the line of rivets isn't really straight, but they are real rivets and not pop rivets. They seem to be in the same area that I've others here. Dealer upgrade maybe ?



Ya, I see 'em now. I dunno. They look a bit erratic to be a factory job, but maybe you're right about a dealer repair or upgrade. I suppose we'll find out when you pull the deck up. If there are no cracks around the rib ends on the hull exterior than it certainly didn't hurt anything.
 

jbcurt00

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Wasnt there a rebuild topic about 12-15mo ago that had a dealer/factory refit of the plates?

Boat was originally her dads IIRC....
 
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