Hard top for a 14' Niagara? Should I do it?

Mark_VTfisherman

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Re: Hard top for a 14' Niagara? Should I do it?

From several requests from iBoats and elsewhere I update this thread. I will begin a new thread when the project actually starts unfolding.

To make a long story short - the Edinboros I was chasing last fall didn't pan out. I wish they did. The other thing is that sketches and visualization of a hard enclosure on a Niagara reveal there is no way to make this look "right" and there are too many compromises. However, scaling a hardtop onto an Edinboro looks OK on paper. But I haven't been able to connect with a donor hull on a trailer for the $100-$300 I am willing to pay. I don't want a nice boat to start with: I want an undamaged hull that won't make me feel guilty when I take the sawzall to it!

So I transferred my energies to the 19' Starcraft, got a 90HP for it, worked on trailer, etc. At least if I get it on the water it will be both usable and salable. As we know, 'project' boats (sic) without a motor and without being able to try out are only worth a few hundred, while a clean, good running, and well set up 19-footer should sell for $3000 or more. Along with the boat project I needed a tow vehicle. The 14' Niagara is fine behind my BMW 318 because it tops around 1000 or 1100 pounds even when loaded. But the Starcraft will weight hundreds more than that empty. So I have acquired a 4.2litre to drop into the jeep so I can at least tow the starcraft.

Come October, though, I know me: I will be getting project-antsy and be scouring the ads for the long Edinboro again. I have already made up my mind: my winter project this year will either be an Edinboro getting a hard-top or I am going to buy an old basket case CB175 or CB200 that I have been wanting to build for the last 6 years or more. If I don't score a suitable Edinboro by December, I am going to buy an old CB175. That is my final answer :)
 

sphelps

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Re: Hard top for a 14' Niagara? Should I do it?

Hey Mark this is just what the doctor ordered ! Here is adoseth's Seacruiser ..

Have not seen many of these around but would be perfect for offshore ..
 

Mark42

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Re: Hard top for a 14' Niagara? Should I do it?

Wow. That is beautiful!
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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update:

Well, still haven't found an appropriate bigger MFG project boat. Which is good in retrospect. That Seacruiser is awesome though.

I have spent some progress time on the 19' Starcraft, but I can't seem to fall in love with it like I did after I bought the Niagara over 20 years ago. But a bigger boat is really attractive at this point with a 2-year-old grandson. Just not enough deck space on a 14' Niagara, and no place to spend the night!

The Starcraft has been good for me though. After spending the last few months telling myself I have a bad case of one-foot-itus I spent some time last weekend with a tape measure, scraps of wood, and some 5 gallon pails. The truth is it's not one-foot-itus: there is simply 12- to 18-inches too little length on a 19' boat to accommodate an acceptable berth forward and still have adequate deck space for fishing.

Since I can't get past the starcraft as a stepping stone boat and not what I want to commit myself deeply to, it has occurred to me to pull lines from my Niagara and sketch it out as a 21 footer LOA and a 100" beam. Crazy? Maybe. I just can't break away from the perfect ergonomics and classic looks of the Niagara. Twenty-one feet draws up nice- it will still be a small boat, but it won't have any compromises to notice every time I use it.

I have found a 16'8" LOA MFG in the weeds by an abandoned barn, though, and I am working on finding out who owns the place to see about procuring the boat :) Yes, I have a sickness. It needs a few hours with a pressure washer but it appears to be 100% undamaged structurally. It doesn't seem to have an holes drilled in the dash or any place else. It is an empty hull with everything stripped but I am good with that :D
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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OK - EdC sphelps Mark etc. et al - I have something interesting I may procure :D

Wish I had pictures but it was dark. I came across an MFG Edinboro by the nameplate by the helm. good for 1750 pounds or 7 people on the BOA tag.

It measures out just over 17 loa (bow peak to transom) has a curved transom and is very deep. In fact the side windows are "let into" the molded hull cap (the gunwales are about 4" above the window height). It has the classic MFG molded-in floor and has a johnnyrude 85hp V4 on it. Looks to be a factory canvas top and frame with it. Has a nondescript trailer with it. It looks neglected and sad and appears to be a good candidate for me- accused of being the patron saint of lost causes!

Maybe it is just me but I cannot find a pic of this on the fiberglassics stuff with a length like this. This brochure http://www.fiberglassics.com/wiki/images/f/f7/Mfgb70010.jpg shows the hull cap style I am referring to but it still seems "small."

Bad time for me to buy anything as I am into my second week of unemployment but I am going to try to engineer a 'buy.' See what unemployment does? Good thing I am not married!!
 

sphelps

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Hmmm looks like the same hull type but the cap looks changed up a bit . Hopefully the all glass floor . Now we gotta have some pics !! :D:
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Looks like the all glass floor, and is solid. Assuming stringers are the 'glass ones as well as not punky. AND the transom neither looks repaired nor does it seem soft at all either. Tried but haven't talked to the owner yet. Hopefully tonight, and determine if tires and trailer look good enough to tow away.
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Hmmm looks like the same hull type but the cap looks changed up a bit . Hopefully the all glass floor . Now we gotta have some pics !! :D:

Pics probably Tuesday... I bought it against my better judgement LOL- will be picking it up tomorrow. Raining today and tomorrow so I will take some photos on Tuesday. In the daylight it turns out to be not in good shape- but not too too rough shape either.

The good; the bad; and the ugly:

GOOD: Overall in good shape and not a lot of drilled holes. Windshield in good shape, all glass is glass and not plexi, and has a center hinged walk-through (crawl through??). Transom looks good. Motor is complete. Controls all there. Power trim-n-tilt. Trailer is sound. Has a 10-gallon steel portable tank in it, plus a 6-gallon and 12? gallon plastic portable tanks. All nav lights and factory bow cleat present but it needs a couple skene chocks and a pair of flush/pull-up cleats in the rear. Apparently is a 1969 Edinboro. Has the small, forward vinyl top (intact) with fram that snaps to windshield frame. Must be factory as I have seen a number of Edinboros with this very same looking top. Tires hold air.

BAD: 85HP Motor has some bare wires connectors under the cover from what appears to be ill-conceived mechanicing. Looks like it was running when it got "parked" in 2006 (last reg). Has a 40 gallon (or more?) aluminum fuel tank under a plywood box that supports seats on the port side; not plumbed up currently for unknown reasons.

UGLY: apparent minor impact damage above bow eye (but seems solid) and keel damage at several spots that coordinate with trailer roller locations. Seats are all but unusable. Dumpster for sure as one of them even has its steel hinge rusted off! Trailer has those skinny, hard-to-find 12" tires; not a fan, and plus they-re wetheared. Some body at one point painted the whole thing with something like rustoleum spray bomb rattle cans- not a 'bad' job but way not up to my specs! Steering cable is frozen up. I will have to modify top to make it stand-up at the helm.

Overall for the money I paid I am not saddened- 3 bills. :) :) :) :)
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Oh, ya- this should take a small hardtop and forward enclosure which will make staying overnight on the boat at least possible. The Niagara is just too small..
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Sorry no pics yet. My netbook has decided that it doesn't want to read SD cards anymore apparently.

However, I have made progress! I stripped everything not part of the boat out of it- old nasty seats, rusted out on-board fuel tank, yadda yadda. Then I pressure washed it inside and out and every nook and cranny inside that I could. Must have been over a dozen 'active' hornets nest under the bow; that was interesting. I blasted them with 2700 psi but I still wound up with 4 half-dazed hornets crawling up my leg, on my head, on my shirt. I didn't get stung but after the fourth one I was a little freaked out!!!

The pressure washer also was enough to strip about 50% of the dull rustoleum paint PO used on it. I am contemplating going at it again with a 10-degree nozzle to see if I can get the bulk of it. That could save some sanding time. On the other hand, if what remains didn't blast off on the first pass it probably will be a fine base for polyurethane marine paint and since it is enamel of some sort they should be compatible.

Trying to decide if I want to take the effort to remove the motor and windshield and then flip it to do the patching on the keel. Couple a spots where water was bleeding through from the inner hull when I picked it up. Seems structurally sound but I want to run a layer of CSM with two layers of cloth over that down the full length of the keel. I want to span the first 4" "strake" on either side of the keel and doing that upside down on my back is possible but probably not very practical, fun, or time conservative either. 90% chance I will flip it as I want to do a good job quickly AND I plan to epoxy a 3/16-thick aluminum strip from the lower prow back about four feet. I did this to my Niagara as a beaching and ramp wear strip - I haven't had to repair my keel on the Niagara since I did this. I used to have to repair the forward keel once or twice a year depending on how much I used it.

So this will be my last update to this thread as I will start a new "build' thread here at iBoats. Here is where I am at:
  • Boat is a 1969 or '70 Edinboro with splashwell and walk-through windshield
  • Measuring myself in daylight without unskilled help LOL I get 16'8-3/4" which is right on for the sales literature specs.
  • Powered by a 1969/70 Johnson 85HP electric shift
  • Has all the interior fiberglass side panels that feature the ski pockets
  • floor is solid fiberglass with apparently solid fiberglass stringers too
Questions, plans:
  • is 85HP too much for this boat? Rated at 85 or 90 HP max, I think. Wondering if I shouldn't be getting this running well and sell it for cash to pick up a newer oil-injected 70HP. Lighter, less fuel, won't use as much gas or foul plugs when trolling, etc. Thoughts?
  • Has anyone ever cut out the rounded fiberglass cross-strut that forms the topmost portion of the "duck pond" under the bow? I want to cut this area out and 'glass in a new forward floor that is flush with the cockpit sole. This will let me have a hardtop covered area of sufficient for sleeping without shortening up the rear deck space for fishing. Initial ideas show if I do this I can still have about 8'+ of fishing room from hardtop to transom (will make a pebble-vinyl covered deck over splashwell on each side so that is useable space for netting fish)
  • Stage one is hardtop; will make vinyl sides, rear and front filler with windows for this stage. Second stage at this point may be creating a trunk cabin forward, raising the bow deck 8 or 10 inches, removing the factory windshield and installing hard windows like a C-Dory has.
  • I will be removing the inner fiberglass panels that run down the sides as I want to create my own with locking doors for rods and other stuff. If anyone needs/wants these PM me. They look nice but will not suit my plans.
  • I will also be installing a sheer-mounted flush bow light pair, so the factory red/green light is also available for any purists who need/want one for a restoration.
Busy for the next few days or week but if I get the chance to actually start anything I will post up a new thread. No, the boat isn't quite big enough for what I wanted, but I am in love with the boat (which never happened with the Starcraft) and I am really pumped about the project. I can't wait. In fact, I wish I was irresponsible because I probably could have had it pretty much underway this week:) LOL and maybe got it ready for the water by the end of the weekend!
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Messages
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Sorry no pics yet. My netbook has decided that it doesn't want to read SD cards anymore apparently.

However, I have made progress! I stripped everything not part of the boat out of it- old nasty seats, rusted out on-board fuel tank, yadda yadda. Then I pressure washed it inside and out and every nook and cranny inside that I could. Must have been over a dozen 'active' hornets nest under the bow; that was interesting. I blasted them with 2700 psi but I still wound up with 4 half-dazed hornets crawling up my leg, on my head, on my shirt. I didn't get stung but after the fourth one I was a little freaked out!!!

The pressure washer also was enough to strip about 50% of the dull rustoleum paint PO used on it. I am contemplating going at it again with a 10-degree nozzle to see if I can get the bulk of it. That could save some sanding time. On the other hand, if what remains didn't blast off on the first pass it probably will be a fine base for polyurethane marine paint and since it is enamel of some sort they should be compatible.

Trying to decide if I want to take the effort to remove the motor and windshield and then flip it to do the patching on the keel. Couple a spots where water was bleeding through from the inner hull when I picked it up. Seems structurally sound but I want to run a layer of CSM with two layers of cloth over that down the full length of the keel. I want to span the first 4" "strake" on either side of the keel and doing that upside down on my back is possible but probably not very practical, fun, or time conservative either. 90% chance I will flip it as I want to do a good job quickly AND I plan to epoxy a 3/16-thick aluminum strip from the lower prow back about four feet. I did this to my Niagara as a beaching and ramp wear strip - I haven't had to repair my keel on the Niagara since I did this. I used to have to repair the forward keel once or twice a year depending on how much I used it.

So this will be my last update to this thread as I will start a new "build' thread here at iBoats. Here is where I am at:
  • Boat is a 1969 or '70 Edinboro with splashwell and walk-through windshield
  • Measuring myself in daylight without unskilled help LOL I get 16'8-3/4" which is right on for the sales literature specs.
  • Powered by a 1969/70 Johnson 85HP electric shift
  • Has all the interior fiberglass side panels that feature the ski pockets
  • floor is solid fiberglass with apparently solid fiberglass stringers too
Questions, plans:
  • is 85HP too much for this boat? Rated at 85 or 90 HP max, I think. Wondering if I shouldn't be getting this running well and sell it for cash to pick up a newer oil-injected 70HP. Lighter, less fuel, won't use as much gas or foul plugs when trolling, etc. Thoughts?
  • Has anyone ever cut out the rounded fiberglass cross-strut that forms the topmost portion of the "duck pond" under the bow? I want to cut this area out and 'glass in a new forward floor that is flush with the cockpit sole. This will let me have a hardtop covered area of sufficient for sleeping without shortening up the rear deck space for fishing. Initial ideas show if I do this I can still have about 8'+ of fishing room from hardtop to transom (will make a pebble-vinyl covered deck over splashwell on each side so that is useable space for netting fish)
  • Stage one is hardtop; will make vinyl sides, rear and front filler with windows for this stage. Second stage at this point may be creating a trunk cabin forward, raising the bow deck 8 or 10 inches, removing the factory windshield and installing hard windows like a C-Dory has.
  • I will be removing the inner fiberglass panels that run down the sides as I want to create my own with locking doors for rods and other stuff. If anyone needs/wants these PM me. They look nice but will not suit my plans.
  • I will also be installing a sheer-mounted flush bow light pair, so the factory red/green light is also available for any purists who need/want one for a restoration.
Busy for the next few days or week but if I get the chance to actually start anything I will post up a new thread. No, the boat isn't quite big enough for what I wanted, but I am in love with the boat (which never happened with the Starcraft) and I am really pumped about the project. I can't wait. In fact, I wish I was irresponsible because I probably could have had it pretty much underway this week:) LOL and maybe got it ready for the water by the end of the weekend!
 
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