New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

[aarivers]

Hey guys, I thought I'd stop in and show off my latest project. I bought a 72 MFG Niagara with a Force 50 O/B and trailer for $320 to get me and my son out on the water fishing and realxing and have some questions for you guys. First off let me say I have never owned a boat so I have a ton of general questions along wih boat specific ones. First off as you can see in the pictures I have some floor board rot going on, looks to have originated from the crack on the starbord side, whats going to be the best option for fixing this section and the crack on the side. It's about only the front half of the floor, the rear seems rigid with no soft spots and the transom feels solid also. I would rather go with a composite flooring solution than marine plywood so any suggestions would be appreciated. Second thing is the steering. it's got the old cable winding drum setup and I'd like to go to a Teleflex system and was wondering which type of mounting system I should go with, the transom mount or the splashwell mount? Third up is getting some replacment parts, I am going to need a windshield and I'm finding that they are not easy to come by, and I also need to get some seats and would like to find some older loung seats that need to be recovered so I can get them recovered to match the new paint I plan on laying down on it, so where would be the best place besides ebay and craigslist to find these items?

Thats about it for now, I'm sure i'll have more questions and updated pictures for you guys. I guess I should also tell you what I have in mind for the boat. I plan on doing a mild restore to it, definitly giving it the retro look with some lime metalflake on the upper deck and pearl white on the lower section. I plan on carrying that theme over to the seats with some white vinyl with metalflake vinyl inserts, kinda tuck and roll look. I need to find more period correct steeering wheel though to bring it all together.

On to the pictures.

 

[aarivers]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

 

[*EdC*]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

aarivers

Welcome aboard!

OK .... Everything seems a bit daunting right now I bet! So sit back and let us help you out.

From your pics, I can see you are also a "car guy"... good, that tells me you know how to use the tools!

First thing...... Make a plan! How far do you want to go with this project? This must be your first decision. Everything else you do will depend on it. Obviously you will need to do some fiberglass work, so start searching the iboats forums for that. Try here..http://forums.iboats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22 So pick a starting point, and we'll help you along!

 

[aarivers]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Definitly want to start with the floor repairs. I've been doing some searching and looks like theres som composite stuff out there named Starboard that looks like a good replacment for the old wood. I need to price it out.

 

[pduquette]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Welcome aboard ! You already starting with more than I did!lol...keep asking away!

 

[sphelps]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Welcome aarivers ! I may be wrong but isn't your motor already rigged for the teleflex steering ? Wouldn't the cable mount in the round tube just above the transom ? I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so I could be completely wrong . That is how my 85 Force is installed..
Good luck and keep us posted !

 

[aarivers]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Welcome aarivers ! I may be wrong but isn't your motor already rigged for the teleflex steering ? Wouldn't the cable mount in the round tube just above the transom ? I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so I could be completely wrong . That is how my 85 Force is installed..
Good luck and keep us posted !

Well the motor might be Teleflex ready but it's getting the cable mounted up that has me a little confused since the boat currently has the factory wind up cable with pulley design. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to get the cable mounted up in the back, going with a mount coming off the transom or a mount that goes into the hole on the side of the splashwell. I've been trying to dig up pictures of how others have ran the cables but not seeing much out there on GIS (google image search).

Edit: or would I be able to use the tilt tube for mounting?

 

[*EdC*]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Definitly want to start with the floor repairs. I've been doing some searching and looks like theres som composite stuff out there named Starboard that looks like a good replacment for the old wood. I need to price it out.

Star board is great stuff.. But very expensive. I can't say I've ever seen it used as flooring. Also Bonding to fiberglass is, at best difficult. Here is a link on that....http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/external-link/?external_page=http://www.kingstarboard.com
You would be much better off using plywood and encapsulate it with resin. First things first..... Get the old stuff out! One of the best ways to do this is with a circular saw. Set the blade depth to exactly the floor thickness. Be very cautious around the edges were the floor meets the sides.If it were me, I stay away about 8" all the way around. At least for the first cut. You can always go in tighter once you can see and measure the underside. Let us know how you do, and then we can talk about plywood and resins.
Hope that helps!

 

[aarivers]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Star board is great stuff.. But very expensive. I can't say I've ever seen it used as flooring. Also Bonding to fiberglass is, at best difficult. Here is a link on that....http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/external-link/?external_page=http://www.kingstarboard.com
You would be much better off using plywood and encapsulate it with resin. First things first..... Get the old stuff out! One of the best ways to do this is with a circular saw. Set the blade depth to exactly the floor thickness. Be very cautious around the edges were the floor meets the sides.If it were me, I stay away about 8" all the way around. At least for the first cut. You can always go in tighter once you can see and measure the underside. Let us know how you do, and then we can talk about plywood and resins.
Hope that helps!

Yeah I wasn't sure what to attack the old boards with, I was gonna go with my 4 1/2" grinder with a cut off wheel, but I might try the circular saw first like you suggested. I also found some other starboard alternatives, Nida-Core and some other stuff called T-Kore structural composite material. both look to be about the same price as Starboard, but would be lighter due to the honeycomb like inner structure. My only reservation with the plywood is I just don't want to have to worry about this happening again in the future.

I'll keep you updated on my progress!

 

[Jon Sob]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Hi aarivers ...... Welcome to iboats. In a lot of cases ( and not saying in yours ) if you have rot on your sole then you may have rot in your stringers ( if they are not metal ) and the transom. The first thing after you remove you sole is to take samples of both stringers and transom. To do this just take a drill and drill some test holes on both and see if the shavings come out dark and mushy or light brown and dry. Put some tape on the bit about 3/4" from the tip so you will know how deep you have gone. Be sure to drill from the inside of the transom not thru the outer skin. As far as using ply for the sole, I have a 1960 MFG and I just replaced the transom and the keel because of rot. I replaced it with Fir from the local lumber yard and I figure that if the wood that they put in my boat lasted 50 years then if I get half that amount of time out of what I put in ( which is sealed and glued a heck of a lot better then from the factory ) then I will be happy.

Here is how my steering is attached. I just changed to the Teleflex system. It goes thru the tilt tube:

 

[aarivers]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Hi aarivers ...... Welcome to iboats. In a lot of cases ( and not saying in yours ) if you have rot on your sole then you may have rot in your stringers ( if they are not metal ) and the transom. The first thing after you remove you sole is to take samples of both stringers and transom. To do this just take a drill and drill some test holes on both and see if the shavings come out dark and mushy or light brown and dry. Put some tape on the bit about 3/4" from the tip so you will know how deep you have gone. Be sure to drill from the inside of the transom not thru the outer skin. As far as using ply for the sole, I have a 1960 MFG and I just replaced the transom and the keel because of rot. I replaced it with Fir from the local lumber yard and I figure that if the wood that they put in my boat lasted 50 years then if I get half that amount of time out of what I put in ( which is sealed and glued a heck of a lot better then from the factory ) then I will be happy.

Here is how my steering is attached. I just changed to the Teleflex system. It goes thru the tilt tube:

Awesome, thank you for the picture of the mounting. I wasn't sure and I didn't want to order the wrong parts.

The only reason I think the floor rotted is because of a crack in the fiberglass on the starboard side up under the bow and the previous owner didn't have a cover for it. So using that then yeah i will probably be able to get away with regular plywood especially if I coat it in epoxy or since I have it laying around, I could spray it with automotive urethane clear. I will take the aluminum cap off the transom though and check it out.

 

[Jon Sob]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

You might want to check the transom near the bottom since rot usually starts from the bottom up. I have my fingers crossed that you don't have rot and that you only have to fix the sole. I would use a good exterior ply which is made with waterproof glue. I used fir because I was told not to use pressure treated ( didn't want to wait months for it to dry ) or pine because the resin may not adhere well. I know that they use fir for sub floors so the glue will adhere properly. Just so you know that epoxy will adhere to poly resin but poly resin won't adhere to epoxy. So, if you are using epoxy to seal your ply on the sole then you may not be able to use gelcoat on top of the epoxy. I am no expert on fiberglass so you may want to search that to be sure or maybe one of the glass guys will chime in.

 

[youngbuck007]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Congrats on getting an MFG! Looks like a fun project! For your steering the others have already pointed out you have a tilt tube on your motor to allow for a Teleflex cable attachment. If you haven't already, you will need to check to see if you have a Teleflex Safe-T type helm behind the steering wheel. My guess is you will need somewhere around a 14ft cable +/- and it looks like you need the steering arm as well that attaches to the end of the cable after it comes out the side of the tilt tube. You're not the only one who would like to find a good condition original steering wheel... you'll have to keep your eye out on Clist, Ebay and parts yards as they can be hard to come by. If you check out Ed's post he did a nice job mating an original wheel to a Teleflex rotary helm with a modified chrome bezel to boot!

 

[aarivers]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Congrats on getting an MFG! Looks like a fun project! For your steering the others have already pointed out you have a tilt tube on your motor to allow for a Teleflex cable attachment. If you haven't already, you will need to check to see if you have a Teleflex Safe-T type helm behind the steering wheel. My guess is you will need somewhere around a 14ft cable +/- and it looks like you need the steering arm as well that attaches to the end of the cable after it comes out the side of the tilt tube. You're not the only one who would like to find a good condition original steering wheel... you'll have to keep your eye out on Clist, Ebay and parts yards as they can be hard to come by. If you check out Ed's post he did a nice job mating an original wheel to a Teleflex rotary helm with a modified chrome bezel to boot!

Well I went ahead and bit the bullet and purchased a new Teleflex No Feedback 4.2 rotary helm and 13' cable, also purchased a secondhand adjustable linkage off eBay to get it connected to the motor. The old steering was the factory steering that had the dual cable wind up helm, so I knew I wanted something a little nicer than that.

I had time tonight after mowing the yard to get int and cut out the remaining wood up front. I used a circular saw for the first cuts then went back in with my angle grinder and a cit off wheel to get closer. The bow actually came up very easy, the starboard side fiberglass was already delaminated from the hull so it just peeled of, the other side I cut with my grinder. Thankfully it came out in one piece so I can use it for a template when I make my new one. So I'm going to let it dry out for a couple days and then I'll shop-vac up all the wood bits and get some new wood to start putting in. i wonder how much fiberglass mat and epoxy I will need..?

Floor scraps and old seats..

Bow area.

 

[Jon Sob]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Hey aa ....... I don't know if you seen this before but Friscoboater has a lot of videos on most projects on a boat. Check out his Youtube channel for some great info. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM82L-lJ6VA&feature=relmfu

 

[sphelps]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Are the stringers glassed over wood ?

 

[*EdC*]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Well I went ahead and bit the bullet and purchased a new Teleflex No Feedback 4.2 rotary helm and 13' cable, also purchased a secondhand adjustable linkage off eBay to get it connected to the motor. The old steering was the factory steering that had the dual cable wind up helm, so I knew I wanted something a little nicer than that.

I had time tonight after mowing the yard to get int and cut out the remaining wood up front. I used a circular saw for the first cuts then went back in with my angle grinder and a cit off wheel to get closer. The bow actually came up very easy, the starboard side fiberglass was already delaminated from the hull so it just peeled of, the other side I cut with my grinder. Thankfully it came out in one piece so I can use it for a template when I make my new one. So I'm going to let it dry out for a couple days and then I'll shop-vac up all the wood bits and get some new wood to start putting in. i wonder how much fiberglass mat and epoxy I will need..?

Floor scraps and old seats..

Bow area.

Keep going dude! Get er all out... You'll be glad you did! BTW don't throw out those seat boxes They are original! I've been looking for some like those for years! Got any more pics of them?

 

[SteveMFG_Oxford]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Ed - I had what I believe were original seat boxes. They were so waterlogged and rotten I had to throw them away. Before I did so I built new ones of the same dimensions with a few modifications to allow them to stay dryer inside. The originals were plywood (1/2") clad with a light naugahyde type material that served to seal in moisture and facilitate rot!. The ply was untreated and was in terrible shape. One literally falling apart.

I had a nice piece of 3/4" ply left from my transom repair and used it to recreate the seat boxes. A little heavy yes, but the material was "free". They certainly are solid now!

If measurements would be of use let me know.

I installed my battery under the port seat out of sight with the weight helping to counter my own.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

Q? Is that a Niagara? Or a Westfield? The splashwell makes me wonder...

Another thing: Star Board is heavy and will take a set over time- might not be the best choice for floor.

The windhield thing will be the hardest thing for you.... The boat seems pretty good other than the floor.

Keep the updates coming!

 

[aarivers]

Re: New Boat owner here. '72 MFG Niagara

So, time flies and it's almost a year since I got the boat and it still doesn't have the floor in :shame: I have cut the new floor out though and it's ready to install. How much epoxy and fiberglass do you think I will need to order and what weight glass should I get? I'll get some pics of the new floor when I get home tonight.

I'll be moving to FL in about a month so I'm definitely a little more motivated to get her done. Thanks again guys.