Update on Ol' Blue

lncoop

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I was talking to a buddy about the Expy one day and he told me to call his guy who had worked for local dealers then gone out on his own. Ran over there this morning for him to take a quick listen. Before he did anything he checked the oil and found that it was two quarts low. He said that was most likely causing the rough idle and the noise by starving the cam phasers. I had asked the service adviser at the dealership if they'd checked the oil and he responded "They'd better have.". Well, guess what? I'm obviously no mechanic but I'm pretty sure Ol' Blue didn't burn through two quarts of oil in three weeks, so the only possibility I see is they didn't, in which case they performed $500 worth of unnecessary diagnostics and could have very well cost me an engine. It quieted down quite a bit after I added oil so I think I'm okay, but I feel they owe me $500. I'm willing to let them make it up to me on tires which I see as more than reasonable. Waiting on a call from the service manager. The adviser conceded this is very very bad but says he can't make that call. We'll see what happens.
 

Boomyal

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Good Luck, Incoop. I know anyone can make a mistake but it really galls me when they charge so much and then screw up something so elementary.
 

rbh

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OK, first off I am glad you found the issue, second off, not to be a knob, but how does your oil get that low if you check it between oil changes??
 

lncoop

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Fair question Rob (you're such a knob:laugh:), and the answer is I just started checking it about ten thousand miles ago and have added oil but obviously haven't gotten into the habit yet. That changes now of course. Also, I forgot to mention that he told me some of his customers have quieted the cam phasers by switching to Rotella 15W40.
 

roscoe

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Took my truck in for service in fall, oil was at proper level.
Had $500 of service done, including oil change, and the next day it was 2 quarts low.

Dealership would not own up to the mistake, but insisted I had a major problem with the engine. yeah, right.
 

rbh

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15/40 should be good for you, its thicker than 10/30 and you do not have to worry about it turning to molasses when it gets cold'
 

MTboatguy

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I run Rotella 15W40 in both of my diesels and have never had a problem with it, even when very cold. I also put a note on the dash the reminds me to check the oil with every fuel fill up. Us old guys start to forget things and unfortunately if you forget, it can get real expensive.
 

muskyfins

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I hate to be like this, but this is why I do as much of my own work as possible. If I have to take it in, I usually stand outside the door of the bay where my vehicle is being worked on. In the very few instances where I dropped off, I pull into the service drive and inspect whatever they have done with the service manager. Yeah, they usually think I'm an a-hole, but you only have to burned once....

But to answer your question, making it up on tires isn't enough. They owe you $500. I don't image there's any real damage but........:noidea:. The pricing on the tires would have to competitive with other places and then subtract $500. Don't let them do the old "we'll split with you" and take $250 off the tires which are already $100-$250 higher than anywhere else. Just my opinion. But they say i have a bad temper.:rolleyes:
 

lncoop

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Well, time for the next installment. Hope y'all got your popcorn handy! I fired off an email to the Relationship Manager at the stealership stating the reasons I was not happy with them. He promised to have someone call me. After a week of no one calling me I sent another email. No response, so I sent one more asking if I should just go ahead and file a complaint (whatever that means:lol:). The shop foreman called me the next day and asked if I'd be willing to bring it back and let them take a better look at it and try to make some sense of what was going on. I dropped it off this morning. HE sat in the driver's seat himself and confirmed that it was idling rough but not very rough, then they performed another relative compression check. Guess what? No difference between any cylinders and no trouble codes.:confused: He said they were all scratching their heads but he agreed with me that a new engine was likely not necessary.

We had an excellent conversation and eventually both reached the conclusion that the additional noise that's developed is likely a lash adjuster. Their engine tech agreed. I pointed him toward the cam phaser replacement program Bruce mentioned which includes replacing the lash adjusters. If one factors out the cylinder two misfire that they couldn't replicate the only thing that fits all the symptoms is the cam phaser issue. I conceded that I was probably out of the extended coverage on it but asked him to check very carefully because I might not be. He mentioned the other thing that often kills those engines is timing chain tensioner seal failure so I told him to go ahead and include that in the estimate; probably another $400-$500. I DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH ANY OF THIS AGAIN IF I CAN HELP IT. The good news is even if I have to pay for it it will be about 1/5 the cost of a reman engine and they'll be able to look everything over while they're in there. So, he's working up an estimate now and told me there's no reason I can't continue to drive it until we decide what to do. We may finally be getting somewhere.
 

bruceb58

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Wow...just read your update.

Personally, I would be bringing the truck for any repair to your new mechanic that you just found. Sounds like he is the one that has his head on straight! :)

Not sure what you can do about your $500 at this point though. Are they going to credit you that for these future repairs?
 

lncoop

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Wow...just read your update.

Personally, I would be bringing the truck for any repair to your new mechanic that you just found. Sounds like he is the one that has his head on straight! :)

Not sure what you can do about your $500 at this point though. Are they going to credit you that for these future repairs?


As a matter of fact the new guy overfilled the oil by a quart and didn't use a Motorcraft filter which is very important on these *&^%$)! 5.4 Tritons. Ay caramba!:facepalm: This has been a lesson in patience, humility and all the other attributes we're supposed to show each other on this earthly walk. I plan to continue to leverage the loss of the five bills. Stay tuned.
 

MTboatguy

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If it was a Ford dealership you took it to, I would file a complaint with the local regional sales/service manger for Ford as well as the BBB, car companies don't like those complaints and normally will try to work it out to your satisfaction, I have gone so far as to actually call the divisional manager at Ford's headquarter in the past to get the ball rolling. When it is all said and done, $500 dollars in this day and age of the internet is a very small price to refund in the whole scope of things.

Since the advent of the internet, car companies are actually changing how they respond to complaints cause they know what can happen.
 

captmello

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http://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-repair-guide-5-4-cam-phaser-tick-knock-sound-141266/

Have a look at this link as well. Since buying my 05 f150 I've done a lot of reading on the VCT issues/noises and I've found a lot of confusion. many guys have spent 3-4k on engine work only to have the same noises return soon after. Idle quality is also a common issue with these motors and again, just a lot of confusion. If you're going to have some work done, i would do it all like mentioned in the link. I've listened to my engine knock, tick, idle rough since I bought it with 150k miles, and I've simply driven it another 110K in the last 4+ years. thanks for sharing your story, I look forward to the final outcome.
 
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lncoop

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Thanks for the thoughts Cap'n. No real news but I thought I'd let y'all know where I stand presently, which is still mired firmly in a state of confusion.:laugh: I've at least narrowed it down to what I am and am not willing to do. That's a start, right? So here's where I are.

1. The truck is still performing fine. The tap/knock is still there but no worse. I could be wrong about this, but after a lot of reading, head scratching and soul searching I concluded it would make the most sense to confine any work to the passenger side bank. That's where the trouble is. I'd love to perform the work described in that thread. I'd actually read it before. However, I can't do that myself and it would cost the same as a reman long block installed to have it done so that's out. I'm waiting on an estimate to replace lash adjusters, followers and cam shaft as necessary in the number one bank. That's likely as far as I'd be willing to go on Ol' Blue and sounds pretty promising provided it's not too expensive.

2. I'm looking at replacement vehicles. That's not my first choice, but if I'm gonna do it I gotta do it while the Expy is still running. Looks like I can find one that meets our needs in the $25k-$28k range. That's still a distant possibility at this point but a possibility nonetheless.

3. If the estimate just makes me laugh like all the others have I may just drive 'er til she dies then drop in a long block.

Stay tuned.:popcorn:
 

Cofe

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Two quarts low....could also be caused by a stuck pcv valve...allowing oil to be sucked into the intake manifold.
 

lncoop

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No Title

The search has begun.
 

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southkogs

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Bummer Coop. I hate buying cars : much as I like having a new(er) car.

A completely unsolicited idea and something I did a few years ago when I was looking at SUV/Trucks like the Expedition: they were so popular at the time that the cost was kinda' nuts. A comparable E150 8 passenger was considerably cheaper. If you need 4WD, then it's a no go - but I don't use 4WD that much. Space-wise, I love havin' a van. Lotsa' good used ones out there too.

Good luck on the hunt.
 

lncoop

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Thanks pal. The admiral and vice admiral both want another Expy, so guess what I'm looking for.
 

southkogs

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The admiral and vice admiral both want another Expy, so guess what I'm looking for.
... 'cuz if Momma' ain't happy ... ;) Expedition is a good rig. It's always been on my short list.
 
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