Bad Cylinder on Expedition. What to do?

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Don't do the ceramic additive. Your 4% compression is not your issue.

If they moved the coil and spark plug to a different cylinder, did they subsequently get the same code still for #2?
 
Last edited:

gm280

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
14,585
Sorry I posted this not know there was a second page of info...... :yield:

Well first you change the engine, and when that doesn't fix the problem, then change the transmission, and follow up with the body. If none of those fixes the problem, you're screwed...

Okay getting serious now. I have to agree with the rings not your problem as well. I'd look for some ignition issues first. Fuel Injection has so many censors that easily one of them could be suspect. And yes even one coil pack can as well. But new or another engine is a bit overkill... And I also agree with NOT adding any additives. If you changed the oil and filter and air filters on regular intervals, there is ZERO need for any type additive...ever! Lots of folks turn to additives in hopes to solve a problem and it certainly doesn't every time that it really isn't worth the effort or money! I have seen the "Engine rebuild in a can" products and have to laugh. Yea right! Did you have the OBDII computer read? Could be a code shown there. JMHO!
 
Last edited:

Bifflefan

Commander
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
2,933
Coil, Coil, Coil. 5.4 two valve engines over 100k should have the coils replaced. They just go bad from use. I replaced mine one at a time with new ones from napa. about 50 bucks a piece. One one starts to go they all will go sooner than later. Most of the time they will not set a code, so no check engine light. Just start it up and unplug each one, one at a time until you find the one that makes no change in idle quality. Thats the one to replace.
FYI, do the passenger side rear two at the same time and when you have a couple hours. They are the hardest one to get to.

Just wondering, What dealer puts in a used engine???? I have never heard of that, nor met a dealer that would take on that kind of liability.
 
Last edited:

lncoop

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
5,147
For initial diagnostics they switched number two plug to number one, number two coil to number three then number two injector to number four. This was supposed to have eliminated injector and coil pack as potential issues.

Would this not eliminate the coil? Bassman, please send me some fuel line magnets. I couldn't find any around here.:laugh:
 

keith2k455

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
558
Ok, first never ever return to that dealer. I'm not sure about this specific vehicle, but don't some vehicles require the injector to be "programmed" to the ecm when changed? If so, the crack pot dealer probably didn't do that and thus your new cel. I would listen to our ford guys here, that 5.4 is supposed to be a good engine. There's no way you lost a cylinder unless you like to fire it up when its -10 and hold it at the rev limiter ice cold.
 

Harritwo

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
586
I have an 04 F-150 with the 5.4L 3V engine, at 160,000 lost oil pressure to the right cylinder head and phaser. $4500.00 for a reman engine at a local rebuild shop, installed. $5500.00 for same engine, bored 30 over, heads and deck machined,4 year 60k warranty. Biggest issue with these engines is the wrong oil filter. Ford has issued a TSB that states a) change plugs at 60k instead of the original 100k. b) use 5w30 vice 5w20 oil, c) use oil filter with silicon anti-siphon valve. (Motorcraft), and the other is a Cylinder misfire. Coil packs are notorious for breaking down at high revs and heat long before they will at idle. Take it out, open it up and see if it sets the code, goes into "Limp-Home" mode, misfires, sets the check engine light or other symptoms. Run the codes after that and see if you still get a code P0302. My bet is a bad coil pack. Truck has 190k on the clock now, excellent results with the engine build.I intend to run it at least another 100k.

I drive 100 miles a day, getting 17 mpg on the highway, and it is still the most comfortable ride i own.
 

lncoop

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
5,147
Guys, I appreciate all the advice as usual. Here's something I hope you can clear up for me. Sounds like most everyone votes coil which seems to be a frequent culprit, especially at that mileage. But, their diagnostic procedure supposedly ruled it out. What am I missing?
 

Tnstratofam

Commander
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
2,679
True their diagnostics should have ruled out the components for #2 cylinder, but only 4% loss on compression seems low to us. You could have damage to that piston that could have come from a lean mixture. There could also be about a 100 other things going on. I think the problem most of us have with this whole scenario is that the dealer is telling you to spend that much dinero on a used engine is crazy. You could have something as simple as a damaged wire in the wiring harness for that cylinder causing your problem. That's why we're recommending you get a second opinion from a good trustworthy mechanic.( Side bar here. Don't find a parts changer, and don't start throwing parts at it yourself.) Find out what caused the trouble code, and have that repaired. If it comes down to a new engine then get a remaned engine put in by a reputable place. Not the dealer as they will be much higher, and not necessarily better.

Here is a link to a ford forum I've found to be full of knowledgeable guys who are ( like here ) trying to help people keep their trucks running with lots of good advice.
http://www.fordf150.net/ Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Last edited:

lncoop

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
5,147
Let's take the engine swap out of the equation. I thought I made it clear that wasn't happening but maybe not. At this point I'd just like to know what caused the misfire code.
 

Tnstratofam

Commander
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
2,679
If the answer isn't found through the link alldodge posted above, ( by the way thanks for that link I've got it bookmarked now:thumb: ) try posting a question in the ford forum I added a link to in my previous post. You're on the right path in trying to find out what caused the code versus just replacing stuff. The problem is so many things can cause a missfire that diagnosing it without a code reader, and some testing equipment on your own may prove difficult. Like I said don't throw parts at it until you narrow it down some more. Is your cel still on? If so most auto parts stores will retrieve your codes for you. Don't clear the codes hoping they will simply go away, and most mechanics want to read as many as are stored on the ecm to get a better feel for what all may be wrong. Sometimes it takes a few starts before the ecm locks in a fault code.

When I stay starts that is starting the vehicle and driving it normally until it reaches operating temperature.
 
Last edited:

NYBo

Admiral
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
7,107
Do you really believe they actually performed the diagnostics to rule out the coil and injector given what they are recommending??
 

lncoop

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
5,147
There seem to be a few wires crossed in the thread so here's a recap.

1. The CEL was NOT illuminated when I took it in. It was illuminated when I picked it up, I assume because of the diagnostics. I had him turn it off and it hasn't come back on yet. It's not even idling rough at the moment.
2. To my knowledge the only code retrieved was P0302. I'm not a mechanic but I do know that means misfire in cylinder two and have researched the possible causes extensively over the last 48 hours.
3. The dealer told me the rough idle is due to the leakage in cylinder two which IS listed as a possible albeit comparatively rare cause of P0302. Right after I started this thread I started one over on the Ford Truck Enthusiasts forum and was told at only four percent loss there's no way the problem was the rings. That makes sense to me too since as you guys have also pointed out four percent down is not much.
4. When I picked it up yesterday I told the service adviser under no circumstances would they be swapping the engine. He agreed that he wouldn't go that way either but did insist the problem was the piston rings.
5. NYBo I do believe they performed the previously stated diagnostics; #2 plug swapped to #1, #2 coil to #3 and #2 injector to #4.

Although plug, coil and injector may have been eliminated by that process wouldn't that still leave other possibilities like wiring?
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,581
IMO either the injector (if it wasn't actually swapped), or as you say a bad connector or wiring feeding the injector. Only resistance from going with wiring is there is no mention of missing at higher rpm.

Edit: Maybe steam clean the engine as tpenfield did with his Merc
 
Last edited:

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,620
I' am not totally understanding what the dealer meant when they said the cylinder was "4% down" . . . . would that be on a cylinder leak? Down from what? The other cylinders?

I cannot see a 4% value, either higher in leak or lower in compression being noticeable at all and certainly not contributing to a misfire.

I'd go ahead and do the seafoam or water decarb treatment. Also, seafoam in the oil can help with sticky valves, rings, etc. Plus if you pressurize it, it makes a great dessert topping :D :D :D
 
Last edited:

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Although plug, coil and injector may have been eliminated by that process wouldn't that still leave other possibilities like wiring?
Sure. You also have all the other components mentioned like MAF, EGR...

Buy some MAF cleaner and clean it. A car with your many miles needs that done anyway.
 

rbh

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
7,939
I realize that your vehicle is electronic everything, but it brings back memories of points, coil, cap, rotor, wire and plugs and if there was an issue with any of those there went that cylinder.

I wonder How many times I was out after dark with a spray bottle looking for sparks jumping to the block.
 

captmello

Captain
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
3,826
I have the same motor in my 05 f150. There have been times when I stop at a red light that it seems to idle rougher than normal. It never seems to happen consistantly or very often, so I've ignored it to this point. While this info is of no help, i just thought I'd let you know what I've experienced. I just rolled over 260K. Good luck with yours.
 
Top