Bad Cylinder on Expedition. What to do?

[lncoop]

I took my beloved 2005 Expy in because it just started idling really rough. Long story short the number two cylinder is down about four percent due I'm told to bad piston rings. The dealership of course says I need an engine at $6k for a used one. The truck only has 120k miles and a replacement vehicle just isn't in the cards right now, nor do I really want one. Can something be done with that cylinder only? Do I just suck it up and replace the engine? What are your thoughts on the best way to proceed?

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

What are the readings? 4% isn't much

 

[lncoop]

What are the readings? 4% isn't much

Not sure. I'll get the paperwork tomorrow when I pick it up.

 

[tpenfield]

Yea, 4% is about what they would normally deviate. I say a Seafoam treatment through the engine and in the oil. No $6k for the Ford dealer.

 

[tpenfield]

Also clean the MAF makes a big difference.

 

[rbh]

One cylinder down 4%, big deal.
Did they do a leak down test to identify if it was the valves or rings? This engine is the V10?

V10s have valve issues, 120 miles is not much if you change oil and do not run it like you stole it or run it on a 1/4 mile strip daily ETC you get the point.

Get them to check the valve train.valves, lifters rockers cam. Is it throwing any fault codes?

 

[lncoop]

One cylinder down 4%, big deal.
Did they do a leak down test to identify if it was the valves or rings? This engine is the V10?

V10s have valve issues, 120 miles is not much if you change oil and do not run it like you stole it or run it on a 1/4 mile strip daily ETC you get the point.

Get them to check the valve train.valves, lifters rockers cam. Is it throwing any fault codes?

5.4 V8. They did perform leak down and determined rings. Haven't asked about codes but the CEL never illuminated. It just started idling rough last night and when I started it this morning it sounded a little noisier than usual which is saying a lot. That's a chattery engine.

 

[lncoop]

Anyone have any thoughts on using a ceramic additive? Doesn't seem like it would hurt anything to try. http://www.slideshare.net/askbobpond/so-what-can-you-do-about-blow-by-anyway

 

[rbh]

If you have issues DO not throw in additives, figure out the issue and fix it.
There is a ford diagnostic cheat sheet for you 5.4, make sure the dealer follows it.
There are no short cut

120.000m is not a lot of miles for rings to go bad, 500.000m your ring are worn worn past the point of making compression.

 

[Tnstratofam]

A bad coil pack can cause a sudden miss, and or rough running engine as well. For that kind of money I would be getting at least two more opinions before I settled on a repair. From a couple of trusted sources. Your engine has awfully low millage to need a rebuild, unless you've taken poor care of it.

 

[bruceb58]

Don't waste your money with additives. They aren't going to fix bad rings if that's your problem. You could soak your piston all day in seafoam and it wouldn't do a darn thing except drain your wallet.

The spec for deviation between cylinders is normally 10%.

Personally, 4% is not the cause of a rough idle. You could be down 50% and likely not even notice it at idle.

It could be a lot of things, EGR valve, MAF...list goes on. It's crazy that they recommend you get a new engine. Talk about shotgun troubleshooting! Yeah, why not just suggest the most expensive item! If you are going to shotgun, start with $45 parts and not $6000 parts

For example, I had a rough idle recently on my 1999 Chevy Silverado when it was cold after start up. Did a bunch of research and found it was a fuel pressure regulator. $45 later for the part and it was fixed.

 

[lncoop]

Wouldn't things like coil packs and MAF sensors cause CEL illumination? After I get more info tomorrow I'll post it, and rest assured whatever happens it's extremely unlikely Ford will be swapping out my engine.

 

[bruceb58]

Wouldn't things like coil packs and MAF sensors cause CEL illumination? After I get more info tomorrow I'll post it, and rest assured whatever happens it's extremely unlikely Ford will be swapping out my engine.

I had a rough idle on my Lexus with some hesitation when it was cold. I put a new MAF on it and that fixed it. No CEL. If you have a bad enough misfire, you will get a CEL. If the MAF is enough out of spec you will get a CEL. If it's just a little dirty, you won't.

You don't have a K&N filter on there do you?

Is it just the idle or does it have less power as well?

 

[Tnstratofam]

A missfire can cause the cel to trigger, but not always right away. My 07 E250 service van has the same engine your Exp does, and I've had missfires before from a bad coil pak that didn't trigger the cel. Two years ago the computer went out on it, and it started running bad without throwing any codes. Took it to our local mechanic who couldn't get it diagnosed correctly. Ended up taking it in to the dealer who took a week or so before they finally nailed it down to the computer. Had them do a tune up on the van which include all the usual stuff including cleaning the fuel system as well as replacing the coil paks, plugs, etc. 8 months later lost one of the coil paks, and took it back. We have 4 of these vans, and although they are perfect for our line of work, all the vans 02 or newer have troubles with the ignition about once every two years. The 96 model which has the older style ignition seems to hold up better. By the way we have a 99 model that is pushing 300,000 miles on the same engine, and she gets abused pretty hard.

 

[tpenfield]

Above all of the technical ramifications . . . this scenario as it has been described just does not smell right.

One day a rough idle appears and that translates to a $6k rebuild . . . not quite adding up at this point. There may be more to it, but as described does not add up.

 

[lncoop]

Okay, I just picked up Ol' Blue. I visited with the service adviser again and here's the rest of the story.

They did initially pull fault code P0302. For initial diagnostics they switched number two plug to number one, number two coil to number three then number two injector to number four. This was supposed to have eliminated injector and coil pack as potential issues. They then performed compression and leak down to determine there was leakage past the number two piston ring. When I started it this morning the CEL was illuminated. I went ahead and had them reset. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until it comes on again. I told the service adviser there was zero chance they would be swapping the engine and he chuckled then agreed.

At this point I'm still not sure how I'll proceed but I'm in no hurry. I'm not currently experiencing any power loss, only the rough idle. As y'all said, four percent ain't much. I really am inclined to try the ceramic coating additive. Bruce and Rob, did y'all read up on them any? Actually sounds like it could be worth a shot under the circumstances.

 

[bassman284]

Anyone have any thoughts on using a ceramic additive? Doesn't seem like it would hurt anything to try. http://www.slideshare.net/askbobpond/so-what-can-you-do-about-blow-by-anyway

Sinter ceramic to your cylinder walls? Seriously? Maybe you should also get some of those gas line magnets.

 

[rbh]

Morning Mr Coop, just read the latest and from what I gather the service departments only found issues with fault code po302 and the cylinder down 4%, right?

So what ever set off code PO302 is probably the issue, not the cylinders compression.



Just looked up the fault code, could also be a bad injector.



Could you have gotten some bad gas/water in the tank?

 

[Tnstratofam]

Get a second opinion before you start throwing mechanic in a can at your problem. Find a decent mechanic ( Not Midas, Mieneke, or Sears! ) Like I said unless you've not taken care of it you really shouldn't be having major engine issues that would require a total rebuild.

 

[tpenfield]

Code P0302 comes up as #2 cylinder misfiring . . . Lots of things you would do before you throw in the towel for a new engine. sounds like the dealer is trying to work up the Holiday bonus fund