Residential wiring question.

lckstckn2smknbrls

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
1,114
It would be fine. A GFCI is comparing the neutral and the hot current at the GFCI outlet itself.

When you make comments like this, it makes me wonder. Have you thought about hiring an electrician to help you out?

I haven't thought about it just yet. This is the first time that I know of that I have run into a shared neutral, I have heard of them just never seen one.
I think I will pull the first outlet out of the box then layout the circuit on the counter, energize it and do a little testing before doing anything more.
If that works great I'll pull a few wires and be done. Otherwise I will all the wires out and pull new wires in with the needed neutral.
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,581
Only issue I see with 15 on 20AMP is it's in a kitchen (higher current appliances normally) and the load will go thru the 15AMP GFCI which feeds the other outlets. Unless all outlets are run in parallel (different GFCI at each outlet) but don't think that's how it's wired currently
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Only issue I see with 15 on 20AMP is it's in a kitchen (higher current appliances normally) and the load will go thru the 15AMP GFCI which feeds the other outlets. Unless all outlets are run in parallel (different GFCI at each outlet) but don't think that's how it's wired currently
He will have to put one GFCI in each outlet which is exactly how its wired now since he doesn't have any GFCI circuits.

I have a vacation rental and had to go through an inspection process which required all outlets on a kitchen counter to be GFCI(current code). A GFCI was put at each of the outlets that were currently not GFCI protected. At the time the house was built, only ones next to the sink had to be GFCI.
 
Last edited:

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,581
Yes Bruce what ever you say.
But.. current code allows for one GFCI outlet to be wired (top terminals) and the remaining be carried off the load side (bottom terminals). Not saying it wasn't said and I know you will point it out if I missed it, but never heard the current thought was not to install a GFCI at each location, seem to have enough problems with the first box.

And yes I have had my work inspected as well, matter of fact just had one done last year, it was a pole barn, but just the same.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Putting just one GFCI in and running the rest as loads would be desirable if his wiring had his neutrals run correctly. But they aren't so he can't.
 

batman99

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
393
I'm a fan of installing single wire runs to each box with individual GFCI outlet as well. re: No daisy chaining using the load side of GFCI side. Yes, costly (in the short term) but in the long run, easy to understand. And, easy to troubleshoot. Especially since my basements (home and cottage) uses suspended / removable ceiling tiles.

My home originally had GFCI outlet at its rear sliding door. And, it has a normal outlet on the front door. A few times, the GFCI tripped (at rear door) and the front door outlet stopped working. Took me the longest time to realize the front door outlet was daisy changed to the rear door GFCI outlet. I rewired that factory build in a hurry. In my simple mind / simple design, wet zone outlets should have their own GFCI outlet. If it trips, I know its that specific outlet, and no need to go hunting for others. This works for me....

With above in mind, it would be best to pull in new wiring to each outlet box. And if needed, use SLIM GFCI units.
 
Last edited:

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,581
And we have now gone full circle and back to the first post
 

bigdee

Commander
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
2,665
Only issue I see with 15 on 20AMP is it's in a kitchen (higher current appliances normally) and the load will go thru the 15AMP GFCI which feeds the other outlets. Unless all outlets are run in parallel (different GFCI at each outlet) but don't think that's how it's wired currently

That is exactly what I would do......and NO it will not trip if you did exceed 15 amps (which is very unlikely since most 115 volt appliances are limited to under 15 amps. If this was wired with romex I would replace the box and that may even be possible with emt. I have been licensed for over 40 years and have NEVER seen emt used in a house. Armorflex was bad enough! That is another possibility.....pulling the wires out of the emt and running a new circuit with romex. Just knock the emt out of the way and fish in romex to a standard romex box.
 

batman99

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
393
.
Within my cottage (and its limited counter space), I took following into consideration:
- Coffee pot on receptacle top hole = 9 Amps
- Toaster on receptacle bottom hole = 9 amps.
- 9 + 9 = 18 amps (if both used together)

IMO: Very high risk of tripping 15 amps. Especially if one has party and my wife's friend doesn't know the outlet's hole restrictions.
Thus, why I plan to install dedicated 20 Amp GFCI outlet (using 12/2 wire). Especially since its within 2.5 ft away from sink. re: Both appliances on at same time and it doesn't over stress the circuit or its GFCI internals.

Not too sure if I'd risk a dedicated 15 amp on 14/2 wire (for coffee pot + toaster) - even if never had problems in the past.

Perhaps original poster has same concerns? re: Different folks use kitchen and don't know the usage limits of each receptacle's hole.
 

bigdee

Commander
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
2,665
.
Within my cottage (and its limited counter space), I took following into consideration:
- Coffee pot on receptacle top hole = 9 Amps
- Toaster on receptacle bottom hole = 9 amps.
- 9 + 9 = 18 amps (if both used together)

IMO: Very high risk of tripping 15 amps. Especially if one has party and my wife's friend doesn't know the outlet's hole restrictions.
Thus, why I plan to install dedicated 20 Amp GFCI outlet (using 12/2 wire). Especially since its within 2.5 ft away from sink. re: Both appliances on at same time and it doesn't over stress the circuit or its GFCI internals.

Not too sure if I'd risk a dedicated 15 amp on 14/2 wire (for coffee pot + toaster) - even if never had problems in the past.

Perhaps original poster has same concerns? re: Different folks use kitchen and don't know the usage limits of each receptacle's hole.

Not suggesting that you do that. Bruce and I were suggesting the slim profile CFCI (15 amp) be used on the existing 20 amp circuit. GFCIs due not trip on overcuurent. If you look at most homes you will see that most of the time 15 amp rated receptacles are used throughout on 20 amp circuits. IMO if were my house I would get rid of the conduit and shared neutrals and run new romex circuits. Since you have a basement access should be easy. BTW that 15 amp rating is for each half of the duplex.....not the sum.
 

StarTed

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
694
I think there may be some confusion over terminology. Correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that GFI means ground fault interrupter and GFCI means ground fault circuit interrupter. A GFCI is not needed unless you plan to interrupt that outlet and a circuit down stream from it. The 15 amp or 20 amp current is not what it is designed to interrupt (that's the job of the circuit breaker in the circuit breaker panel) but rather any differential between the hot and neutral which means there is current flowing to ground (probably through you). However it has to handle the interruption of whatever load may be on it when the differential is sensed. Of course you could use a GFCI in place of a GFI and it is probably cheaper since there are more of them used hence made.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
GFCI is the correct term and is what is used in the NEC. There really is no GFI but some people call it that since its easier to type or say.
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,333
"Au contraire" On the contrary" "mon fr?re" Used as a greeting between friends, primarily as a joke taking the **** out of people who call each other "Brother".

Never thought we were related

More likely playing on an old George Carlin skit.

But his point was simply that you were incorrect.
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,581
To snide for iboats tastes!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

lckstckn2smknbrls

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
1,114
That is exactly what I would do......and NO it will not trip if you did exceed 15 amps (which is very unlikely since most 115 volt appliances are limited to under 15 amps. If this was wired with romex I would replace the box and that may even be possible with emt. I have been licensed for over 40 years and have NEVER seen emt used in a house. Armorflex was bad enough! That is another possibility.....pulling the wires out of the emt and running a new circuit with romex. Just knock the emt out of the way and fish in romex to a standard romex box.

I'm not a licensed electrician but have been doing electrical for more than 30 years and have only used romex a handful of times. EMT is code here has been for longer than I've been alive (55 years). It's the only way to go.
 

lckstckn2smknbrls

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
1,114
Not suggesting that you do that. Bruce and I were suggesting the slim profile CFCI (15 amp) be used on the existing 20 amp circuit. GFCIs due not trip on overcuurent. If you look at most homes you will see that most of the time 15 amp rated receptacles are used throughout on 20 amp circuits. IMO if were my house I would get rid of the conduit and shared neutrals and run new romex circuits. Since you have a basement access should be easy. BTW that 15 amp rating is for each half of the duplex.....not the sum.

Anyone remember Green acres?
Lisa would have to unplug the something to be able to plug something else in.
 
Top