Finally building an outdoor kitchen .May need some idea's /help .

Patfromny

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I have heard that you should use a primer on old cement before putting anything on top
 

Patfromny

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There is also one on that page that says it's for ceramic over cement floors
 

sphelps

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I'm laying natural slate 12x12 tile ... I have seen the primer topic go both ways ..The manufacturer stated not to use any add mixes with it ... Most of the regular concrete bonding agents are painted then whatever product /mortar are applied while still wet ...This leads me to think that I should not use a bonding agent with the thinset ... The floor leveling stuff I posted earlier did have a primer that was used but it had to dry clear before adding the leveler ....
 

jbcurt00

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I would use the primer. Quick drying, porous, underlying (old) concrete will wick the water out of your leveling mix, which is worse for it then it is for a comcrete pour.

In Las Vegas, when they mistakenly sent winter mix concrete to pour 4 house post-tension slabs, and the weather was unusually warm and windy as heck, we had 3 develop major cracking on the house slab and all 4 bad cracking on the garage slab. The thick house slabs also shrank considerable, leaving lots of low spots. And because it dried so fast, they werent able to get a good smooth screed/steel float, so there were high spots too that had to be ground.

They tried twice to use a leveler w out bonding primer and got cracking and flaking of it so bad it had to be removed.

Waited for walls and 2nd floor decks to go on, used primer and no problems.

As the houses were pre-sold, it was a mess and took an extrodinary effort to make it acceptable to the buyers, as it all had to be disclosed. All 4 garages got free optional upgrades to the color flake/epoxy garage coating.

In April, it can still get down into freezing over night, hence the winter mix.

EDIT oops, I thought you were still talking about the leveler.

No, dont use primer w the thinset, if you're wet setting the tile into it. Back butter the tiles really well w the flat side of your trowel, then rake it w the 1/4in notch (correct?)
 

Patfromny

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True jb, if you back butter the tile, the thinset should do fine. You might want to get a couple of trowels. Two is handy to clean each other off. I don't like the "scrape it on the bucket" technic. I buy the stainless ones because they don't bend as easily and they aren't a whole lot more either.
 

sphelps

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EDIT oops, I thought you were still talking about the leveler.

No, dont use primer w the thinset, if you're wet setting the tile into it. Back butter the tiles really well w the flat side of your trowel, then rake it w the 1/4in notch (correct?)

Thats the plan ... Back butter with 1/4" ... I will though just before thin set wipe the surface with a damp sponge to remove any dust ...
Striking lines right now ... The slate is not perfect buy any means ... No spacers but having lines will help keep thinks fairly straight ..
 

Pusher

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Any progress on the tile job?
Why no spacers? They're cheap enough so you must have a better idea here, being the buider.
Also, what is back buttering? I don't remember anything with toast when I did the shower last winter. ;-) Did I miss something?
 

gm280

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Any progress on the tile job?
Why no spacers? They're cheap enough so you must have a better idea here, being the buider.
Also, what is back buttering? I don't remember anything with toast when I did the shower last winter. ;-) Did I miss something?

I'll let Same cover everything else, but back buttering is merely spreading mortar, thinset, adhesive or whatever you are using on the back side of the brick, tile, block or whatever you are using before attaching it to the surface. Sam can 'plain everything else he is doing. JMHO
 

jbcurt00

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Back buttering is SMEARING a continous layer of adhesive across the ENTIRE back of a tile 1st w/ a straight side of the trowel. Then using the notch side of the trowel to get the right amount of adhesive spread in the right pattern for whatever tile/adhesive you're using.

If you don't back butter the tiles well, and simply rake the adhesive w/ the notched side of the trowel, you risk not getting good adhesion of the tile to whatever you're sticking it to
 

sphelps

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Pusher , gm and jbc have explained back buttering very well .. It is needed especially on larger tiles and tile like I am using ....
http://www.homedepot.com/p/MS-Inter...nd-Wall-Tile-10-sq-ft-case-SPCK1212/202508365
This tile is very inconsistent in squareness , thickness , and over all size ... One piece may measure 11-3/4" then the next piece may be 11- 7/8" or more ... Spacers work great when your tile is a consistent measurement .On this tile the spacers are pretty much useless .. Thus the use of square control lines help keep the tile somewhat straight and square .... Professional tile installers at least some of them may not need the line because working with this type tile becomes second nature to them ... Unfortunately
I don't do enough tile to be that good . :facepalm:
I would have some pics to show you the variations of the tile but for some reason I can't get my computer to recognize my I phone ..:mad:
I hope this sheds some light on your questions...
 

Pusher

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So that's what it's called! Thanks guys!! I did do that luckily. I lifted one of the first tiles back up to add more quickset and saw that there was no adhesion. Glad I didn't waste my time. Haha, dumb luck tends to be my style 😎😃

I saw the tilers using chalk lines on the vegas flipping show saturday morning and was like "huh, I didn't think of that either". Wish I could come help you out and learn some.

I saw a cement countertop on a cocktail bar this weekend. Looked great. Keep up your work and you're going to give me a summer project.
 

Decker83

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From the Decker family to you and your family, Have a Merry Christmas today!!!:D
 

sphelps

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Tile has been going slow . It was supposed to freeze tonight so I didn't lay any today so I worked on getting rid of stuff that's in the way . Saws , tools . bunch of junk ... Forecast is for warmer temps this week so I'll set a little in the afternoon after work .. Here is what I have going .
 

nurseman

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Putting an inlay in the middle of a floor will slow things down for sure! Not to mention all the extra cutting for the 45deg pieces in the center! I always groaned to myself when a customer told me that they wanted stuff like that...but it sure looks good when done! Keep it up!
 

mickyryan

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Pusher , gm and jbc have explained back buttering very well .. It is needed especially on larger tiles and tile like I am using ....
http://www.homedepot.com/p/MS-Inter...nd-Wall-Tile-10-sq-ft-case-SPCK1212/202508365
This tile is very inconsistent in squareness , thickness , and over all size ... One piece may measure 11-3/4" then the next piece may be 11- 7/8" or more ... Spacers work great when your tile is a consistent measurement .On this tile the spacers are pretty much useless .. Thus the use of square control lines help keep the tile somewhat straight and square .... Professional tile installers at least some of them may not need the line because working with this type tile becomes second nature to them ... Unfortunately
I don't do enough tile to be that good . :facepalm:
I would have some pics to show you the variations of the tile but for some reason I can't get my computer to recognize my I phone ..:mad:
I hope this sheds some light on your questions...

deal with this all the time, its because they cut it from larger pieces and the width of the blade is what causes it when it really mattered we used to open all the boxes and actually make rows of like sized tiles making it easier to keep lines strait. but we are usually tiling vertically up a swimming pool raised wall.
 
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