School Violence

Harritwo

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Without getting to political, I wish to ask. There has been much violence in the news concerning schools. In the Seattle Area, there were 2 shootings in 6 months, and several threats. Yesterday, there was the FSU shooting. My question is, Is the violence happening more often than when us boomers were growing up, or is the fact that with technology, it is news within minutes world wide and we are just hearing about all of the violence? Thoughts of fellow Iboaters?
 

MTboatguy

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It is not happening more often these days, it is simply better coverage. I still remember the shootings in 1966 at the college in Texas where the guy was shooting from the bell tower. In my opinion, the 24/7/365 news cycle these days is not always a good thing. The 24/7/365 news cycle, guarantee's we will always know what is going on, no matter what, but I grew up when it started and got to watch the Vietnam war with my dinner every night.

Just to add, I suspect this thread will either be closed or deleted pretty quick, there is no way to discuss this subject without it being political, despite prefacing it with "Without getting to Political"
 
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NYBo

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Just to add, I suspect this thread will either be closed or deleted pretty quick, there is no way to discuss this subject without it being political, despite prefacing it with "Without getting to Political"
Yeah, only getting the small size popcorn.:pop2:
 

tpenfield

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Just to add, I suspect this thread will either be closed or deleted pretty quick, there is no way to discuss this subject without it being political, despite prefacing it with "Without getting to Political"

Yea, this thread shouldn't last long . . . :popcorn: . . . but I'm hungry so I got the big size
 

Bob_VT

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It is not happening more often these days, it is simply better coverage. I still remember the shootings in 1966 at the college in Texas where the guy was shooting from the bell tower. In my opinion, the 24/7/365 news cycle these days is not always a good thing. The 24/7/365 news cycle, guarantee's we will always know what is going on, no matter what, but I grew up when it started and got to watch the Vietnam war with my dinner every night.

Just to add, I suspect this thread will either be closed or deleted pretty quick, there is no way to discuss this subject without it being political, despite prefacing it with "Without getting to Political"


Hey....... I agree with my fellow soldier ;)

If we avoid blaming or citing politics this can remain open. I know that in itself id a HUGE request but, we can abide by it.
 
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robert graham

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Yep, our society is addicted to the news....I doubt that any of us really need to know about every evil occurrence in the entire world as it happens....and folks can't help but be effected by this.....And I'm sorry for all the young folks that are so addicted to the electronics/news/whatever.....When we were young we came home from school and went rabbit/squirrel hunting.... Lots of time when my wife and I are on vacation we make it a point to not turn on the TV for the whole week and it's refreshing just to have a break from the relentless drum-beat of bad news.....give it a break for God's sake!....
 

southkogs

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I'm not so certain that it's not happening more often. I agree we hear about a lot more than we used to (we're over-newsed), but I personally believe that our schools play a bigger role in society than they have in the past. Kids spend a lot of time in the system (bus ride, before school program, school day itself, after school activities and games on the weekends). Many parents have found an "out" (or have gotten used to delegation) for parenting their own kids and letting the school do it.

As a result, you have a bunch of kids alienated from their parents, connected to a world by anonymous social media and collected in a building for 8 to 10 hours per day. That's a VERY different social dynamic than we've had in past decades. Family dynamics play a big role in a lot of what happens in these situations, and I think the dynamic has shifted considerably. (Though, I don't know that I'd say it's "gotten worse" because there were plenty of issues in homes in the past too - I think it's more "different" than worse.)

My 2¢.
 

Tnstratofam

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^^^^ Nail on the head! I would only add that people don't know the true meaning of personal responsibility, or holding ones self accountable for ones actions. " just my 1/2 cents worth."
 

rogerwa

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I think the rapid spread of information has caused an increase. This in combination with a distorted view that the notoriety - as negative as it is, makes them someone. In a lot of the cases you see the kids are outcasts, loners, emotionally abandoned. I believe these acts are their misguided attempts to be significant.

I believe the conditions have always existed. I believe the ability of instant notoriety has increased the number that act. I don't blame video games or really other "new" influences. The kids in these painful situations have always existed. If anything the change is our cultural glorification (not positive but more the attention) of acts like this.
 

WIMUSKY

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It "appears" with all the media coverage there seems to be lot of copycats. People who want their 15 minutes of fame whether they're aware, or don't care, about the ramifications. The media even brings up anniversaries of shootings. That can give loose cannons ideas.I believe if the intense coverage stopped, school violence would go down. Thing is, we all know the coverage will not stop. There's a race who can report breaking news first and they use that to promote their network......
 

Harritwo

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South and Wimusky, I firmly believe that the media sensationalizing the news does indeed create the copycats.I also agree that today's kids are more and more latch key kids left to their own without as much parental involvement as years past. Part of it I believe is due to the economy with more parents working, part is that there are more single parent homes. Part of it is the fact that we as a society have changed, whether or not it is for the good is to be seen.
 

achris

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It is not happening more often these days, it is simply better coverage. I still remember the shootings in 1966 at the college in Texas where the guy was shooting from the bell tower. In my opinion, the 24/7/365 news cycle these days is not always a good thing. The 24/7/365 news cycle, guarantee's we will always know what is going on, no matter what, ...

I also believe that this is why we are so 'scared' these days. I don't believe we have more 'bad people', just they get more publicity. I remember as a kid running around out on the park without my parents watching the move of every individual around. We played outside, in public areas, until it was dark, and nobody died. It seems that this generation of parents were born fearful, of everything. The mere thought of allowing a child to play in a park sends them into cold sweats, shivers and hives! Are there more pedophiles, rapists, muggers and abductors lucking around every corner waiting to pounce on a child 'unguarded' for more than 6.5 seconds? Of course not, but that's what we are being fed by this 'instance' information news system/media circus.... It's not reality that's causing fear, it's the media, hyping things up and blowing everything out of proportion.

Ok, who next on the soap box?

Chris.........
(I hope there's enough 'facts' in here to stop the mods closing this thread... Oh, I am one... :facepalm: then I guess there is :D ;) )
 
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aspeck

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I am a firm believer in teaching kids gun skills and taking them hunting. There is something that happens when they make their first kill. There is a sense of awe, a sense of power, but also a sense of responsibility when they see the irriversible damage that is done. 2 of my kids do not hunt. One does. But all have been exposed, all could defend themselves, and all understand the consequences of pulling a trigger. Something about news that desensitizes the individual to the ramifications of actions.

Got to agree with musky and south also. And yes, it has been around a long time, we are just more available to the the information than we used to be.
 

southkogs

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In God we trust. All others show us your data.
^^^ Love it. :D

So you got me intrigued QC: the topic isn't mass shootings in schools, it's violence in schools. The reason I point that out, is that data can be kinda' flaky sometimes. For instance, if we limit ourselves to mass shootings or fatal shootings we get one stack of data. If we open up to "violence" in general, we get another stack all together. If you consider the focus on bullying in the last several years, the data gets even a little more cloudy (when I was a kid a school yard clobberin' wasn't considered "violence" as such - these days, it is). Data can be "massaged" an awful lot to get you the result you want to show people.

** Cards on the table disclaimer: I'm a homeschool advocate. Not personally all that crazy about the state of public school in any of the areas that I've lived in. Violence wasn't a major motivator for me to go to homeschooling, but it was a factor. So far we haven't made the news :D Anyway, I am a little bias.

SCHOOL KILLINGS
The best summary of mass shootings/deaths in schools was Wikipedia. I didn't do any disassembly of the stats to see what the increase was or wasn't but there appears to be concentrations: for example 1910 seems to have a concentration of incidents. According to THIS site, there have been 387 incidents of school shootings since since 1992. A link I'll provide in a few moments only shows 137 since 1980. I can't find any collection of data like this from the DOJ or CDC.

But the data is interesting too: I would consider the 1927 Bath, MI incident an attack on a school (much like Sandy Hook), not school violence. In other words, someone picked a school as a target. As opposed to an incident we had here at TSU in Nashville in January where a kid (non-fatal) was shot over a gambling debt by another student.

That second data point that says since 1980 there have been 137 killings/shootings in US Schools: if true that means nearly 35% of all of the killings since 1850 are concentrated in recent memory (which would fit why we seem to think they're more increased). 297 deaths since 1980, and 45% of those deaths occur in High Schools (HERE is the best collection of that data). The chart - even if off a little - shows an increase in the last 20 years. If the 387 number is correct then it's nearly a no brainer.

SCHOOL VIOLENCE
This one is a little more muddy lookin' - bullying has become a hot topic in the last several years, and I (personally) would discount schoolyard "scraps." I don't condone 'em, but a collection of teenagers is typically gonna' breed some rooster fightin'. So, I find some of the data a little skewed.

Most recent DOJ STATS I could find for non-fatal violence came outta' 2012. These were mostly year over year stats, but 2010 to 2012 showed a 35% increase in violence in US Schools. In 2010 85% of US schools report a crime on campus - not just an incident - which I found interesting too. THIS site concurs on that data, but suggests that while victimization is on a whole down, serious violent victimization is more flat (or consistent).

All that said: there are several articles that I ran across suggesting that the data IS skewed in favor of the schools. THIS is New York specific (I think) but a clear example of where the data is colliding.

So at the end of all that is violence in the schools increased? I'm not 100% sure. Is violence in the schools present? Absolutely, maybe even ubiquitous. Even if it's just an increase in the reporting by the news, apparently there's quite a bit to report.

... I'm not used to free time early on a Sunday morning: which I had today ;)
 
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WIMUSKY

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These days you can add cyber-bullying to the mix....... Some which have lead to the death of the person being bullied......
 

JASinIL2006

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Just looking at the Wikipedia table, I count the following (out of 91 incidents):

2000 or more recent: 44 school shootings
1990s: 17 incidents
1980s: 8 incidents
1970s: 10 incidents
1960s or before: 12 incidents

I can't vouch for the accuracy of Wikipedia's numbers, but if we assume they are reasonably complete, it looks pretty clearly like the frequency has increased. Hard to say if to say if the constant news coverage has caused the increase, but the 365/24/7 coverage certainly amplifies the effect of these sorts of events.
 

MTboatguy

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Compounding, if it is happening, is a result of the news cycle. Based on my experience while in the Army, we had a few situations happen not long before I retired, when asked what motivated those individuals, they simply told us, because I saw it on TV and I was tired of being ignored! Behavior begets behavior for certain individuals, they see all of the attention that individual receives then they figure, no matter how misplaced, they will receive more attention. Our new technology advances has done some great things for all of us, unfortunately, it has also been detrimental for some people, we live in an anonymous society these days and some people just don't do well being anonymous.

It is like my wife always says, "Love me or Hate me, but just never ignore me" As we continue into the future and what technology will bring us, it will become more and more prevalent, "Just don't ignore me"
 
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