Something you should know before purchasing certain types of solar dock cleats

Roj115

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If you were thinking about buying one of those dock cleats with the embedded solar powered led lights (so that the cleats light up at night) made by the company Dock Edge there is something you should know.

Here is a link to a page showing what these cleats look like. They are available from a number of boating/dock hardware retailers.

http://www.dockedge.com/products/lis...lar_dock_cleat

The thing you should know is that although the cleats are very durable and robust and should last for decades, the company that makes them saw fit to equip them with rechargeable batteries that are not replaceable. The units use a single AAA NiMH rechargeable battery for powering the LEDs. These things are only capable of lasting so many recharge cycles and generally fail after 2 - 3 years of use. Rather than spend a few extra cents to equip the units with readily available off-the-shelf battery holders that would allow for quick and easy replacement of the battery, they opted to go cheap and use soldered in batteries which are very difficult to replace unless you have a fair bit of time and skills with a soldering iron.

I have written the manufacturer to express my dismay with this design decision and have informed them that by choosing to go the way they did, it gives the appearance that they care more about making a few cents more on each unit than they do the well being of their customers and if they did care about their customers, they would have chosen to make those batteries replaceable.

To be completely fair, they have responded and have said they will examine the issue but have made no promises to change the way they are building these units. They also offered to provide me with replacement solar panel/battery units for my cleats which is decent of them but the fact remains that the batteries in units they have built and are still building will inevitably fail within 2 - 3 years and are not replaceable. If they do follow through with what they've said they would do, the batteries on the replacement units they'll be sending me will still fail in a few years and I'll be back to square 1 again. In other words, it's just a temporary fix but better than nothing.

If they start making these products with replaceable batteries I will change my recommendation but for now, I recommend against purchasing this brand of solar dock cleat unless you don't care that the batteries will fail after a few years and can't be replaced.
 
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NYBo

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What happened to your first thread on this subject?:confused:

As I wrote earlier, the ad states, "Rechargeable, replaceable AAA (Ni-MH) battery". Perhaps they changed the design since you bought yours originally.
 

GA_Boater

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The first post was considered too bashy and harsh. This is a little less fiery, so it can stay.

Personally, I would have sent the cleat back if the batteries aren't replaceable because the description and delivered product didn't match.
 
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Roj115

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What happened to your first thread on this subject?:confused:

As I wrote earlier, the ad states, "Rechargeable, replaceable AAA (Ni-MH) battery". Perhaps they changed the design since you bought yours originally.

Mod EDIT
Well, that would be something to check into before purchasing one of these cleats.

They didn't indicate that they had changed their design and made the batteries replaceable since my cleats were made in the 2 or 3 e-mails that have gone back and forth between us on the subject. All they did was try to explain the rationale for their decision which didn't really cut it since they could have met those design constraints with hardware that still allowed for the easy removal and replacement of the batteries, I've even shown them the hardware they could have used to do that and that hardware is cheap and readily available on-line from a number of different electronic component distributors/wholesailers. The extra cost of the different components wouldn't have been that much considering the retail price of the cleat and I would rather suspect all of that extra cost could have been passed onto the consumer without much decrease in demand.

I would think that if they did make the design change they would have jumped on the opportunity to tell me that but they haven't so that makes me wonder if the batteries are still in fact soldered in on those units...
 
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jbcurt00

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Discussions of the forum's administration and moderation arent permitted in the open forum.

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Roj115

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Just checked with Dock Edge. My customer service contact there just confirmed that they are still building them with the AAA batteries soldered in so they are not really replaceable as advertised. People should be made aware of this before they purchase these cleats. They guy said he is working on getting them to change the design to use a removable rechargeable AA cell instead.

The customer service contact also confirmed they are sending me some new solar panel/battery units and circuit boards ( 2 of my 3 cleats had faulty circuit boards as well. One didn't work at all and one of the 5 LEDs doesn't work on another). I think that's pretty fair of them but I'll still be in the same boat in a few years when the batteries on the new panels give out. Maybe by then they will be making the solar panels with replaceable batteries and they'll send me some of those panels.

 

NYBo

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The ad for these here at iboats does NOT say that the batteries are replaceable.
 

JASinIL2006

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I wrote the company and they sent me this photo and said "These batteries (top solar panel w/battery and lower circuit board) may be purchased through us only at this time."
 

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bruceb58

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Its not very hard to solder in a new battery. That would be the least of my worries buying one of these. Batteries like these will last a couple years max. No different than a cellphone or laptop battery. Expecting them to last longer is wishful thinking.
 

MTboatguy

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I own lots of things, that are rechargeable and have "Permanent" batteries and I replace them all of the time, this really seems like a petty complaint about what looks to be a pretty good product.
 

Roj115

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I own lots of things, that are rechargeable and have "Permanent" batteries and I replace them all of the time, this really seems like a petty complaint about what looks to be a pretty good product.


MTboatguy,

The purpose of my post was to inform people that the solar cleats that Dock Edge (and other sites) advertises as having replaceable batteries are falsely advertised. I wanted others to know that the product is not what the manufacturer claims it to be so that they would not be mislead by their false advertising.

In my books, that is doing the community a service.If you want to think that's just being petty, that is your right but perhaps your judgments are best kept to yourself. I just don't see how calling it a "petty complaint" adds anything constructive or useful to the conversation.

The other point I wanted to make was that the cleat will last decades and yet the manufacturer deliberately chose to go with soldered in batteries knowing full well those batteries would only last a few years at most. They could have just as easily chosen to go with hardware that would allow batteries to be changed out quickly and easily.It probably would have cost them a little bit more to do that but it would have been the right thing to do. In my view, they made a bad choice and not the most moral one they could have made.

I realize that it is possible to solder in new batteries and I have the capability of doing that as well but the fact is that most people don't have that capability and they shouldn't have to. And even if they do have the capability of soldering in new batteries, they shouldn't have to go through the hassle of doing that. When you pay good money for a product that the manufacturer says has replaceable batteries it should have batteries that can be easily replaced by anyone and not just people with soldering equipment and an electrical technician's soldering skills.
 
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MTboatguy

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I thought my comment was very productive, after 30 years in the Military, believe me I have seen my share of false advertising and misrepresent claims about all kinds of products, if you don't like what I have to say, then my suggestion is don't read it, I will comment on what I see fit in the manner I want to as long as it stays within the guidelines of the rules of this website.

Have a great evening.
 

jbcurt00

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I hadn't been to the dock edge site until just now.

My take on replaceable is this:

I had the 'pleasure' of owning a cellphone that had completely encased, impossible to replace, even by my carrier's tech dept, battery.

Since the cleat batteries can be accessed, removed and replaced, yes, in fact they are 'replaceable'. Easily replaced? Depends on the particular person replacing them.

Not sure I agree w how they wrote the ad, nor whether the cleat would benefit from connectors rather then soldered joints. It is intended for a wet environment, and like a trailer and exposed connections on a boat, I'd prefer soldered joints.

Roj, I think you've expressed your opinion, reasoning behind it and dissatisfaction w some aspects of the cleats.

Have you gotten the replacement parts and installed them yet?

It is a public forum and as a community we need to agree to disagree sometimes. This may be one of those times*

I hope the new batteries last longer then the originals and arent too difficult to solder.

If you choose too, could you swap to connectors when you put in the new batteries?

Thanks


*Hey, anybody wanna talk about which 2stroke oil is THE BEST?
 

Roj115

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I did just receive the replacement panels with batteries soldered on and replacement circuit boards that I asked for in the mail. All for free. I have to give credit where credit is due, so full marks to Dock Edge for doing that at least. :thumb:

The batteries will last a couple years I suppose and then I'll be back to square 1. BUT I have a solution. A rather clever one too, methinks. :D

When the time comes, I will simply cut the soldered on batteries off the solar panel and will install these:

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/E...6JzGrAxw%3d%3d

I will solder the lead wires onto the contact points and then glue the battery holder onto the underside of the circuit panel, Due to space constraints, I will have to glue a 2 -3 mm spacer in between the battery holder and the solar panel to allow the battery holder to overhang the contact points and give some space for the wires to come back in underneath the battery holder and attach to the contacts. I'm thinking that one of those plastic bread bag tab thingys (technical term) ought to be the perfect thickness for the job.

With this mod, I will forever after be able to quickly and easily pop in new batteries as needed. This is how they should have made the panels in the first place.

I'm just trying to decide if I will do this mod now or in a couple years when the soldered in batteries have lived out their life and expire. I want to do the mod now but I know that the more sensible thing to do is to go the second way and use up the soldered in batteries first before making the modification.

On another note, I noticed that there was some evidence of corrosion on the circuit board contacts inside those cleats. It looks like water gets in there a bit so I'm thinking that when I replace the circuit boards with the new ones I got, I will encase as much of the circuitry as I can (except the LEDs) in silicone or epoxy to keep water off the boards as much as possible. Of the 3 cleats that I have, only 1 had a fully functioning circuit board. I didn't work at all and on the other, 1 of the 5 LEDs didn't work. Maybe keeping the water away from the circuit boards will help them last longer.

--------------------------------------------

P.S. Yes, Evinrude (BRP), Mercury and Yamaha all still build 2-stroke outboards (because they kick the crap out of 4-stroke outboards in almost every conceivable way) and the Envinrude ETec is the clear hands-down winner in this category.
But this is a topic for discussing under another thread. Let's keep this one on what it was intended for. ;)
 
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jbcurt00

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Sounds like a good plan.

If it was mine to do and I had both the new replacements from DockEdge AND the parts to complete the mod, I'd probably make them half and half. Field test the factory batteries against the mod'd battery setup.

Factory goes dead 1st, you've got backups or swap them over to your mod'd setup. If your mod'd batteries go 1st, swap them back to factory or throw in new AAA rechargeables.

Best of luck, and now that you have the replacements, you might go ahead and take pix of the corrosion on the circuit boards. Then forward them to whoever you communicated w/ at DockEdge, in a helpful, informational way. If I worked for DockEdge, I'd WANT info about possible corrosion that could lead to bad reviews.
 
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