Double boot or rear toe plate?

gt2003

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Just getting back into skiing/slaloming. Literally, I've been up ONE time recently and rode it out until I was ready to let go. I was a "fair" slalom skier 25 years ago but never ran a course. Just cruising and making a couple of hard cuts across the wake with big spray for fun. I used to ski the "world record holder Jobe Honeycomb" ski and LOVED it, never my ski but a couple of different friends. I've used a rear toe plate and a rear boot. So, my question is, which should I ski as I get back into it? I bought a Blem O'Brien Synchro with double X-9 boots. They sent the ski blank but no boots so they are sending the boots now (Oh, $199 COMPLETE!). I can buy an x-9 RTP for $30 and don't mind doing so. Would that be a better place to start until I get comfortable on the ski then go to the rear boot? I do remember the rear boot being a little bit different feeling than the RTP in the past.
 

skibrain

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This is totally a matter of preference and no "right" way. The trend has been toward double boots for a while, and I find having my rear foot more locked in place a help. But I switched initially only because I bought a used ski from a friend that was set up that way. ------- Some Top pros still use the rear toe. And newer rtp usually are more substantial than what we had 30 yrs ago, with molded footbed. --------- The bigger factor is how you get up. If you drag a foot on deep water start it is very hard to get your foot in a rear binding once up. Order both if you can. Even if you end up preferring diuble boot, The ski will be more versatile if you have a guest that does not.
 

moosehead

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As SB suggests, the new RTP's are much more robust than yesteryear's versions with wider/adjustable straps and molded footbeds. Some of the world's best skiers are on them, and for intermediate skiers it perhaps helps from over-weighting the rear foot and wheelieing out of the turns. Others swear by the full clamp down of the double boots. YMMV.
 

PBRman

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Aug 31, 2010
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I use and recommend a double boot. I made the switch shortly after a fall where my rear foot came out of the toe plate which in turn ripped my front knee around as I barrel rolled on top of the water. Now, I can't picture it any other way...

Good luck!
 

oldjeep

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All personal pref as others have said. I tried out a double boot for a while and couldn't stand it. Felt completely unsafe to me as it was rare for me to get both feet to actually come out in a crash. I use the radar ARPT which has a nice foot bed in it.
 
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haulnazz15

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I have used both many times (only for recreation) and prefer the rear boot, but haven't had any reason to think one is better/worse than the other. I've only crashed hard enough to come out of the double boots on my current stick once. It was as much of a non-event as any other crash I've had as both feet came out easily. I'm sure if you are skiing competitions and such, you can start to weigh the pros/cons of using RTP versus rear boots, but even the pros can't agree on any definitive answer. I suppose if I'm going to get tossed around, I'd rather have both feet stuck in the boots versus one knee/ankle enduring the twisting.
 

gt2003

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The boots will be here Wednesday and I'll have the ski in the water by the weekend. I've ski'd both RTP and boot but was mainly wondering since I'm just getting back into it. I'll post results next week.
 

BF

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Personal preference.... I have both. For just recreational free skiing, I prefer 1 boot. Allows me to drag back leg in deep water starts which greatly decreases your drag. Also makes shallow water starts from shore possible, and stepping off the dock for a dock start easy. I don't ski enough anymore to routinely land the "flying dock start" with a double boot (which used to be the case). Back in the day when I used to ski the course, the double boot was an improvement, now it just seems more of a PITA. Again "back in the day", there were many local and talented skiers doing high end short line runs with a toe plate.... so I know that's not the limiting factor... talent and practice over-rides it! I don't know the ski you bought, but I will also say that a "better" ski may not necessarily be "better" for you. As I got better in the course, I bought ski's with more and more rocker, and higher drag... great for decelerating at slalom, but they are harder to get up on, and very tiring to ride just to free ski on.... Now I much prefer riding a more "mid grade" ski, not as tuned for true slalom course performance. The Jobe honeycomb was a great ski... my buddy had one so I rode it a lot as a youngin' (until I started buying and skiing EP ski's, then went to mastercraft).
 

gt2003

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The Obrien Synchro is more of a mid-grade/semi-advanced ski versus a super advanced ski and I really like it so far. It's great right behind the boat but is responsive when I go to do my remedial cuts across the wake. It's got the "cross fin" on it and I'm wondering if that is beneficial or not. I've read different opinions.

I've gained confidence over that last few weekends and am cutting a little sharper each day. I've adjusted to the double boot although it's a little "different" than the rear toe plate. Thankfully my confidence is pretty good now since I've been up consistently the last few weekends. I'm thinking I'm going to have the "gumption" to make a really good, sharp cut before the season is over. The most difficult part is getting both boots on my feet. With some boot goo/slime the ski goes on fairly easily. In fact, today I got into the boots standing on the motor cover with the fin out over the water. Then I eased backwards and fell backwards into the water. That was great as I didn't wear myself out getting the ski on. This is a learning process as it's been so long since I've slalomed consistently. Hopefully I'll have a system in place over the next couple of weeks then I can jump into it head first starting next season.

Thank you all for your input. It's nice to have climbed back in the saddle again!
 

haulnazz15

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The Obrien Synchro is more of a mid-grade/semi-advanced ski versus a super advanced ski and I really like it so far. It's great right behind the boat but is responsive when I go to do my remedial cuts across the wake. It's got the "cross fin" on it and I'm wondering if that is beneficial or not. I've read different opinions.

I'd remove the wing if I were you. The wing can be helpful if you are skiing a slalom course, but I find it worthless for recreational purposes. In fact, it can cause you to work harder on the ski if it is adjusted at a high angle. The extra drag they create is good for slowing you down when coming into a buoy, but otherwise just acts like drag if you are free skiing.
 

gt2003

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I can feel the drag, definitely slows quickly on the back half of a cut. There is a slalom course somewhere on the lake so I may leave the fin for now but will definitely remove it at some point to see the difference it makes. It's just good to be back up and starting to get a little of my groove back.
 

oldjeep

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I can feel the drag, definitely slows quickly on the back half of a cut. There is a slalom course somewhere on the lake so I may leave the fin for now but will definitely remove it at some point to see the difference it makes. It's just good to be back up and starting to get a little of my groove back.

I was told that the wing was not needed until you start getting into some pretty short lines at 32MPH. I took mine off and it instantly made a positive difference in the course for me - 30MPH @15 off.
 

gt2003

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Well, now you are making me second guess myself! Ok, I'll take it off for this weekend and see what happens. So, I've read different thougths on line length for starting the course. What are your thoughts, full 75' length or 15 off to start??
 

oldjeep

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Well, now you are making me second guess myself! Ok, I'll take it off for this weekend and see what happens. So, I've read different thougths on line length for starting the course. What are your thoughts, full 75' length or 15 off to start??

I've been told to start at 75. However I have never been able to figure out what to do with that much rope and do much better at 15 off.
 

gt2003

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Ok, I may try to find the course this weekend and give it a shot. I've got a "sectioned" rope so i can try both. I'm kind of excited to see what it's like.
 

haulnazz15

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I've heard starting at 15' off is better as well. Something about it being difficult to hold the speed consistently from ball to ball with the long line.
 

skibrain

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Free, skiing or in the course, less line feels snappier. For any given WIDTH you ski out to from centerline to outside the wake, a shorter line takes you higher on the boat. (more perpendicular, or further up along side the boat as opposed to out back of it).

Then from the wide position, picking up the load and accelerating back across the wakes, the shorter line gives you more help from the boat. Relatively speaking of course, but that initial pull has a bit more angle toward the centerline than just toward the direction the boat is traveling.

When I am skiing wide at 28, 32,or 35 off I get a pretty good look at the bow eye on the tow boat. Sort of a mind bender, but there it is.
 
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gt2003

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Thanks SB, that'll be something fun to try next year. I'm going to try to squeeze one more run in before the year is over. I'll buy me a sectioned rope over the winter and watch plenty of slalom videos to boot. Next year will really be the time to step it up. It's gonna be a fun one!
 

sickwilly

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Be careful, running a slalom course if quite addicting! You will be hooked soon enough, and the addiction will lead to needing another boat!
 

electricjohn

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I prefer rear tow because most of my starts are standing beach (jump start) or flying dock starts.
 
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