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Deep Water Start help.

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  • Deep Water Start help.

    Hello all. I've been trying to get a deep water start to work for a year or 2 now, and am slowly making progress. Now that I actually have a beginner like ski (HO Rival 66.5"), I've made some progress in the last week or so. But I can't seem to get all the way up. Once i'm out of the water, the ski seems to begin to oscillate left and right and eventually I lose it. I'm using a deep V rope (cheater rope), and the boat is a Larson 248 LXi w/ 5.7 GXi (320HP duoprop). I'll attach 3 poor quality vids from earlier today and see if any of the experts here have any ideas for me. I am early middle age and just decided to learn this a while back, skiing on 2 is no problem w/ starts, etc. I can drop a ski as well, but don't usually have the best results w/ that. I'm starting w/ both feet nearly in, the L (trailing) foot is not fully in the binding, but I slide it up into the toe plate once my driver hits it. The driver is using full throttle to pull me up.

    Thanks for any help.
    deep water start attempts

  • #2
    I'll bet the rudder on that ski is either too small or loose.

    I am an experienced slalom skier and tried a new ski that acted just like that, turns out it was due to two main things, the rudder was too small, and the rudder that was there was thin and flexible side to side. you shouldn't be able to get it to deflect back and forth easy with your fingers, should be very rigid.

    The best slalom skis for me tend to have metal rudders probably (ballpark) 2.5 inches tall and about 3-4 inches long.
    Last edited by ttankmoran; August 5th, 2015, 10:03 PM.

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    • #3
      I think this is the problem: "I'm starting w/ both feet nearly in, the L (trailing) foot is not fully in the binding, but I slide it up into the toe plate once my driver hits it."

      Stop doing that. Once you move foot into binding the ski is getting squirrelly. Start with back foot out. Leave it out. Drag with front leg bent knee up close to your chest with straight arms. Stretched out, not leaning back. Drag foot (more or less pointed toe) and back shin behind you. That dragging leg will give you some directional stability.

      Keep arms straight the whole time. Boat does not need your help to pull you up by bending arms. After about 5-6 more looooong seconds the boat will be up closer to 15-20 mph ski will be planing and have directional stability. then..... 4 one thousand, 5 one thousand, be patient..... Then start slowly to move your rear toe toward the binding.
      Last edited by skibrain; August 5th, 2015, 11:23 PM.

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      • #4
        Like Skibrain said, use the non-dominant (rear) leg as another ski. Put the rope between the ski and the dragging leg. Lean away from dragging leg slightly and angle the ski slightly to the side. You want to come up not directly behind the boat but as if you are starting to cut out. Once the ski is planing then square yourself behind the boat.

        Practice doing one leg squats. You must have the muscle strength and mass to deepwater start. Also do some curls to build up your biceps.

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        • #5
          I'm certainly no expert teacher, but just recently met with success after almost a year of trying to deep water start with a slalom. Your video sure looks like you are essentially up. Wish there was just a little better resolution, but it looks like once the cheater rope releases the ski the oscillation starts. I wonder if you are trying to muscle yourself up before you have enough speed to keep the ski stable. When I finally succeeded, I really focused on letting the boat do the work, and waiting... waiting... waiting... waiting... before I try to stand up. This evening, I distinctly remember feeling like the ski was planing, but forced myself to wait. It seemed like the boat had taken a great hole shot, but then was not accelerating fast (like I feel with two). After a few seconds, I could feel the acceleration come on strong, and it was only then that I allowed myself to try to stand up. When I was still having problems, I was trying to get up on on the water quickly, and either would have the ski veer off to the side, or sink resulting in me not being able to hold onto the handle.

          I have ALWAYS heard the sound advice that skibrain is giving you... I think that will give you a lot more stability. Im a bad example tho, I have always started with my rear foot toes just on the ski. Its a habit that goes all the way back to my early 20's - not sure why I ever did it that way, but I always have. I think it crippled me tho as I was trying to relearn deep water starts over the past year. Its been a long hard road.

          Hope this is helpful in some way...
          1997 Crownline 182 BR
          5.7L Mercruiser Alpha 1

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          • #6
            Lean back, keep your butt down. Ive taught many folk to ski and you are trying to hard. Let the boat do the work and butt down with back leg pushing down. You need it to be your rudder. In the vid your weight is directly over front foot and your ankle cannot control the wobble. That said ive never experienced a loose fin so check for that
            Last edited by redneck joe; August 6th, 2015, 08:31 AM.
            1979 Carver Montego 2357 | 260 Mercruiser upgraded to Alpha | 2006 Nissan 15hp kicker

            Girls cry and boys fart in front of friends, but girls fart and boys cry in front of true friends.

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            • #7
              Thanks for all the tips. The fin is an "HO competition fin", whatever that means. I will make certain it isn't loose.
              I can certainly try the dragging the leg trick and see how that goes. I haven't really tried that w/ this "new to me" ski.
              I may be simply pushing too hard on the ski too soon, so we'll work on that as well.
              I will update when I have another opportunity for some pulls. May be this week, may be a few weeks. Thanks again.
              I will also second what milehigh said in his other thread. The blog post about getting up on one ski was very helpful. I actually stumbled onto that about a week before it was posted here.

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              • #8
                For me it looks like you need to stay squatted a little more - this coming for a newbie. Hubby says to try to keep your arms down to keep to keep the cheater rope on the board - if it comes off too early you will get the wobbles. You are almost there. Try not to lean forward when taking off - Milehigh and I both felt shoulders back works best. It looks like the boat is almost planed when you fall - if you an just stay squatted to keep the cheater rope on the board longer as that will help pull the ski thru the water for you - then when planed stand up and the cheater rope will come off the ski and you are on your way. Keep us updated!
                Last edited by firstx1017; August 7th, 2015, 01:20 AM.
                I learned to snowboard at 50
                I learned to wakeboard at 53
                I got up on a single ski at 54
                What next?

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                • #9
                  Hi, Great video. Keep working at it and you will get it. I'm no pro but I've been skiing for a long time and have taught a lot of folks to ski. There is one important piece of info missing here. How much do you weigh? Is a 66 the right size for you? I'm assuming it is, but a wrong size ski doesn't help. Looking at your video IMHO you are trying to stand up too fast before you are at speed. You're trying to fight your way up before the boats wake has even formed. At first glance a 5.7L should have a enough power but a 24' boat is pretty big to ski behind. Not a great hole shot. I ski behind a narrow 21' nautique with a 5.7L. Take the advice of others here....wait...wait...wait then stand up. Think about sitting in a very low squat, knees way bent, lean back, arms straight. When the boat starts to pull you imagine your butt sliding to your heals. Stay low until you can't anymore then slowly straighten up. I'll bet it a 10 count for this set up.
                  Personally I don't like the drag a foot technique. I start with both feet in all the way. Once you learn the technique you can get up faster with less strength required. Remember the one leg squats? Plus if you ever advance to double boots you'll have no choice. Hope this is helpful.

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                  • #10
                    You have some great advice here. That video tells me that you are putting too much pressure (weight) on the front of your ski. The ski knows how to go straight all on its own if you let it.

                    Think about what you do the moment you say, "Hit it." If you clench every muscle in your body, try to stop doing that. Keep your arms straight out. Hold tight onto the handle and bend your knees and soften your stance as you take off. You should feel your lead leg compress almost to the point where it feels like you are sitting on your ankle. Don't try to push the ski forward or use your arms to muscle out of the water.

                    Most people prefer to start one leg out. That never worked for me--probably because I clenched ever muscle in my body, pushed forward on the ski and tried to muscle my way up using just arm strength.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the tips. To answer some of the questions, I am 6'3" and about 182lbs or so. The ski is rated up to 170, so I'm a little over the limit there. I have lost 20lbs over the last year and do work out including 1 leg squats 4x/wk so I think strength will be fine once I can find the right technique and build some muscle memory on this. I am probably trying to pull my self up too soon, as I do w/ 2 skis.

                      I was rewatching the videos again, and I think a 10 count maybe about right as well, if I can keep the ski stable till then. I'll crouch longer and see.

                      Can anyone help me w/ a better idea of weight distribution of the feet, front to rear? I've been trying to put most of the weight/pressure on the front (R) foot, but that may be incorrect. Should they be about equal? How about once I do get up, what is the distribution then?

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                      • #12
                        The article that I read when I was learning was from a woman's point of view. She said to push down (forward) with your front foot and pull up (back) on your rear foot so that the ski is not causing drag. It will plane sooner but then you need to stay squatted longer while waiting for the boat to get to speed and plane. As we women can be "weaker" that may be why she pushes and pulls the ski to get it on top of the water after you say hit it. For me that worked the best. If I kept the ski point upright after I said hit it then there was too much force against the ski with the water and the handle would pull out from me. By pushing the front foot down while simultaneously pulling the back foot up the ski will be close to planed and the back of the ski is under my butt - shoulders back and hang on and I stay squatted until the boat picks up speed and then I slowly stand up. Then again I am only 5'4"!!
                        I learned to snowboard at 50
                        I learned to wakeboard at 53
                        I got up on a single ski at 54
                        What next?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Butt down push on back foot and lean back. All you need
                          1979 Carver Montego 2357 | 260 Mercruiser upgraded to Alpha | 2006 Nissan 15hp kicker

                          Girls cry and boys fart in front of friends, but girls fart and boys cry in front of true friends.

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                          • #14
                            All I have done is tuck knees up against chest both feet all the way in yell hit it and push hard with rear foot. When ski levels off stand up and ski.That is the way I was showin how and has always worked.

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                            • #15
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                              I am surprised how many people are starting with their rear foot either on the ski or in the binding. I was taught to drag the rear leg like a rudder, and it worked for me when I was younger, and I have always thought that was the best practice. Over time I gravitated to having my back foot toes on the ski, and now I dont think I could get up without that - and I just thought I was the weird one.

                              I do think it is important to keep yourself small, and with the rear foot in/on the binding it is awfully easy to let that knee spread out - which creates a TON of drag. Even though I have my rear foot on the ski, I think a lot about tucking my left leg/knee in close to my body at take off.
                              1997 Crownline 182 BR
                              5.7L Mercruiser Alpha 1

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