Trucks for Boats

[agallant80]

I would stay away from Diesel. Between the additional cost in maintance, fuel and the engine the math is really hard to justify unless you need to pull something really heavy often.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Bad converters will rob you of power along with your tranny issues. Spending $3k is a whole lot cheaper than buying a 1-2 year old truck. Have your priced them lately? You should get 200k+ out of your current motor....

Diesels are stump pullers, but you don't need a stump puller for your boat. And you said you don't want to spend a fortune either... I had a V-10 Dodge that was a stump puller too. Gas mileage was terrible tho....

 

[jbetzelb]

You said you were looking for a newer vehicle maybe 2 years old. Pick one of any brand and it will pull 3000 pounds just fine. I had a 96 tahoe with a 5.7 and it struggled on long hills with a 3300 pound load. Pretty much floor it to hold 65 mph in the Ozarks. Then I bought a F250 diesel. Yea pulled nice but cost a lot to drive. I went from a 3/4 ton diesel to a new f150 gas .My boat weighs 3300 pounds loaded with gear and you don't need the expense of a diesel to do that. Diesels need 15 quart oil changes, $90 dollar fuel filters and the list goes on. My F150 pulls it without a problem. It will drop into 4th to hold 65mph on a couple of the long hills on Highway 65 in the ozarks.

 

[Illinoid]

They used to sell test pipes at the auto parts stores, take off your Cat Converter and put in the test pipe and if your problems go away you can justify buying another converter...not legal to leave the test pipe on. Some converters have a sensor in the converter that could circumvent doing this.

If my F250 has to be replaced and all I have to pull is a boat I will probably go back to gas but I hope to keep this truck til I can no longer drive.

 

[KD4UPL]

As you describe your towing experience it sounds correct to me. A large vehicle like that, towing a trailer up hill, should certainly be down in 3rd gear, maybe even 2nd depending on the overall weight and grade. Your engine makes it's maximum HP somewhere in the 4,600 RPM range so running it near that would be appropriate if you were trying to maintain speed up a grade. Trying to pull the grade in overdrive or even 3rd with the engine only turning 2,000 or so RPM would probably constitute "lugging" which would likely increase engine temperature rapidly.
If you are afraid of RPMs when towing then a diesel might make you feel better since they make their power at a lower RPM range. Many newer gas engines are designed to turn even up into the 5,000 RPM range.

 

[smokeonthewater]

3200 rpm towing uphill is SOOOOOO not screaming and is perfectly normal.....

my diesel turns 2500 on the interstate w the cruise set in O/D and gas engines like rpm's way better than diesels

I suspect you have airplane gears (high like 3.08) and are simply used to seeing really low rpm's cruising down the road..... next time you tow try setting the cruise on a safe speed (I like 5 over the limit) and putting the trans in D not O/D.... when it comes to a hill let the trans pick the gear and don't worry about the RPM's.....

SOMETIMES when you have really high rear end gears you actually need to tow a little faster up hill to keep it from dropping down to 2nd

BTW you can buy a universal cat converter online for $70 and have it installed for @$50 at a muffler shop

You may want to have the adjustment of your TV cable checked.... This is not to be confused with a "kick down" cable on older transmissions and should be adjusted by someone who KNOWS what they are doing.... set too short it can limit the throttle from opening all the way and cause the trans to downshift too soon but set too long you can burn up your trans in short order.


Also have fuel pressure checked... those tbi engines have a fuel pressure regulator under the back of the throttle body and when they go bad they can cause reduced performance but otherwise the engine can still run well

 

[KVH]

I'll likely not change anyone's mind with this added info, but those of you who think my Suburban is enough truck for boat towing up hills might be interested in these additional facts: a) I have 160,000 miles on the vehicle; b) I'm on my third transmission; c) the vehicle is 21 years old; and d) the HP of my engine is 210.

 

[Silvertip]

You might want to check the very end of the tail pipe as well. Some versions of this truck had a plate with many holes in it across it located about an inch inside the end of the pipe. I've seen many of these plugged solid with rust & scale that came loose inside the exhaust system. This has the same effect as a plugged converter. A plugged or malfunctioning heat riser (if the truck has one) also blocks the exhaust path.

 

[redneck joe]

I'll likely not change anyone's mind with this added info, but those of you who think my Suburban is enough truck for boat towing up hills might be interested in these additional facts: a) I have 160,000 miles on the vehicle; b) I'm on my third transmission; c) the vehicle is 21 years old; and d) the HP of my engine is 210.

still should be enough

 

[WIMUSKY]

I'll likely not change anyone's mind with this added info, but those of you who think my Suburban is enough truck for boat towing up hills might be interested in these additional facts: a) I have 160,000 miles on the vehicle; b) I'm on my third transmission; c) the vehicle is 21 years old; and d) the HP of my engine is 210.

I had a '93 Chev 1500 pickup with a 5.7. I was towing a heavy equipment trailer with a tractor on it. I put bags on the rear to level the load. Going up "steep" hills my speed would drop off and I wouldn't try to maintain the speed limit. Figured it was working the drive train too hard for no good reason. Heck, you see semi's that have big honkin' diesels in them slow way down on steep grades. The only thing that concerns me is going thru 3 trannys in 160K miles. Did they have bad trannys that year? I had the original one in mine when I sold it with just over 200K..........

 

[Streffpilot]

I had a 95 Suburban 1500 with the 5.7l and 4 speed auto and 220K miles. I always towed my boat in "3"rd gear. At flat highway speeds, the rpms will be up a bit, but it pulled up hills just fine. Even with a 7.5K lb horse trailer.

When that engine threw a crank bearing, I upgraded to a '99 3500 with a 454. Now i can pull in drive like normal, and don't even feel the boat

 

[naturelover]

Wow smokeonthewater, that does seem high for your diesel. My Duramax turns much less than that at 70 in o/d.

As said, should still be enough truck to pull that boat. You could be at 180-190hp now, if it was 210 when new.

But that isn't that heavy of a load, it should pull it at interstate speed if everything is functioning correctly. This is assuming we're not talking 5 mile long 7% + grades or something.

But the transmissions thing is a little concerning, shouldn't be anywhere near needing that at 160k miles, much less three. Assuming (if it doesn't, could probably use one) it has a cooler, is it plugged or something?

 

[64osby]

The 5.7 TBI is a great motor and the 4L80E is also a workhorse. Mine have over 270K on them.

Have you ever cleaned the throttle body? Can make a big difference in performance, and it's easy to do.

3 Tranny's is crazy. Do you have a tow package? If not add a cooler.

 

[ondarvr]

I had 1996 Chevy 1/2 T 4X4 that had great power, tranny went at just over 100,000 though. I still have an 87' with a 350 4 speed manual that doesn't perform as well, they made some changes around 96' for better power.

I also had a 97 full sized van with a 5.7, very strong, but it was on it's 3rd tranny at 36,000 miles, the dealer said I should stop pulling a trailer, I told him take a look, it doesn't even have a hitch. Every component of that van had been worked on during the warranty period so we traded it for smaller GMC Sierra AWD (van) with a V6. It pulled everything with no problems.

Then to a 99' F150 V6 5 speed manual, it pulled the boats just fine other than the very high first gear. 2001 F150 5.3 4X4 that I still have (80,000 miles), pulls the boats with no problems. 2003 f-150 4X4 with a 4.6 V8, a little less torque but did OK (son totaled it). Three inline 6 Trailblazers 03, 06 and 09 I think. Pulled the boats OK, but the motors liked to rev when pushed hard, and mileage dropped fast. I think they were rated for towing 5,000 (seemed like a very optimistic weight) , I didn't pushed it much past 3,000.

I live in Washington, we have real hills and mountains here, you can't go anywhere without an elevation change.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Wow smokeonthewater, that does seem high for your diesel. My Duramax turns much less than that at 70 in o/d.

Eh, not high at all... just perfect.... Any lower RPM and I'd be downshifting ...That is at 82 mph on cruise pulling a 38' triple slide fifth wheel and a jeep wrangler behind it.... 30,600 lbs with 70 gal of fuel and I can carry 140 gal....... I set the cruise 5-8 mph over so I run 72-85 mph soo 2400-2650 rpm sustained for 16 hours at a time since I tow that weight at that rpm for 1000 miles at a time and obviously higher rpm when climbing mountains...

I have 255/85/16 (33") tires on the dually up from the stock 235/85/16's (@31") I'm still ok though have to down shift more often now... but had even higher rpm's before


O/P yes my diesel has more power than your burb BUT I'm grossing 3 times the weight and a LOT more wind resistance and going MANY times further than you..... There is absolutely no excuse for a v-8 chevy newer than about 1960 to habe ANY trouble at all towing that very LIGHT boat.... My 94 chevy w the same engine towed at 22,500 lbs and the lowest I ever got pulled on a grade was about 40 mph and we're talking about a small mountain here

This is NOT an insult... only two possibilities exist... either there is something very wrong with your vehicle or there is something very wrong with your driving...... AGAIN NOT AN INSULT... just a matter of fact analysis of the info given.

We will be GLAD to help any way we can..... If after all of this you have decided to replace the burb that's fine... If you want to fix it that's fine.

If you choose to replace it you can't go wrong with another burb or just about any flavor of v-8 pickup

For that matter I wouldn't hesitate to pull that boat with a v-6 s-10 and could easily do 60 mph plus up 99% of any grade in this country

Or if you are a mini van person MANY w v-6 would be fine....

If you just WANT a diesel... understand that 99% of the time EVERYTHING about them costs more..... IE $85 oil changes instead of $29.... $300 for brakes instead of $99....... E rated tires cost way more than C or D rated tires...... insurance costs more for a heavier vehicle..... etc

Your opening statement was conflicted.... you indicated that your burb was in great shape and you really didn't want to get rid of it and that you were only doing so because it wasn't strong enough for your boat..... Since many of us KNOW that it should pull it REALLY well we have been trying to help you down that road...

Later you seem to be saying the burb is ragged out and you are ready to get rid of it for that reason.....

To proceed I guess we really need to better understand where your head is on this....

BTW I'm not just blowing smoke.... on top of the vehicles I listed and many more I have also owned no less than 6 Suburbans both older and newer than yours and towed as much as 10,000 lbs with them and had NO PROBLEM maintaining highway speed.

 

[Silvertip]

I'm thinking back to the late 80's and early 90's when I fished in Canada with my neighbor. His boat was a 19 foot Crestliner with a 150 Merc and on those very long road trips his 87 suburban had absolutely no problem pulling the boat that was loaded with enough supplies for a week stay on Spruce Island on Lake of the Woods. It seems we've proven the OP's vehicle is capable of towing his boat but as was pointed out many times, either something is very wrong with it amd/or the OP needs to change driving tactics or better understand what's going on with the truck. Back in the 70's I towed two snowmobiles with a '72 Vega Wagon. Towed nicely. Put 100,000 miles on it and swapped in a free small block V8 for another 10,000 miles of fun and sold the car for half of what I paid for it new. Best dollar/mile vehicle I ever owned. So -- dude -- do some diagnostics and fix your burb.

 

[KVH]

OK, I'd be nuts to ignore all the advice. So, here's where I am.

Initially, yes, it might be said I drive like a timid toad. I bought my truck new, and other than needing new paint badly, it's immaculate. I've always babied it. I recently replaced the shocks and step bumper pads, the door locks, the door panel arm rests, the rubber door bumpers, added fog lights, fixed the rear hatch, and lots more. So, yes, I like what I have, and there's some real pride of ownership. And going uphill I avoid racing the engine, and keep it in the mid 30,000s at the most--most of the time.

Twenty minutes of an engine racing would drive me nuts and I'm really not confident any of you would feel differently. No one with a 450 or a better gear ratio (mine is 3.73) or greater HP, or a diesel, should downplay the significance of getting to and from the lake an hour later each way while struggling over 50 miles of hills with a trail of banshees behind me.

To keep the truck, which I'd prefer to do, I need a paint job and I need to find and fix the problem, the most recent manifestation being the noisy rattling sound at high rpms when the vehicle is just about to shift. I don't want to put another $3000 into the car ($1500 for paint, and another $1500 for the fix). A two year old GMC or Chevy will cost me $26,000 or so. Not cheap, so I'd like to avoid that.

I took the truck into a transmission shop. They want it dropped off next week, but preliminarily said they're not even sure the rattling, chain-like noise is coming from the transmission. The noise only comes after the car has been at operating temperature for 20 minutes or so, and only at high rpms when it's about to shift. In second gear, it will make the noise constantly at higher rpms, but, again, only after it's hot. To me, that's the transmission, but the shop said they want to rule out the catalytic converter and something they referred to as a "heat shield mechanism near the exhaust pipe and exhaust manifold."

Sorry, for the long opera here, but I'd be curious about any ideas pending my visit to the shop, which I guess is long overdue.

Thanks for all the input, and all the good ideas. I suppose you know the message has been quite welcome to my wife (my bookkeeper), and music to her ears.

 

[smokeonthewater]

the rattling is almost definitely exhaust... you will NEVER pull steep hills at under 3000 rpm.... Like I said I tow at 2500 MINIMUM for 1000 miles one way in a diesel with a 3500 rpm red line.... my truck had almost 350,000 miles on it....

Not downplaying just explaining... you are going to HAVE to get over this phobia you have of rpm's... your engine is the strongest at about 4000 rpm and you may be a little under OR OVER this to hold a given speed on a steep hill.....

Your aversion to rpm's is unfounded and impractical and a new truck will have to downshift to tow up hill also....

You need to push down the gas pedal.....

 

[naturelover]

Eh, not high at all... just perfect.... Any lower RPM and I'd be downshifting ...That is at 82 mph on cruise pulling a 38' triple slide fifth wheel and a jeep wrangler behind it.... 30,600 lbs with 70 gal of fuel and I can carry 140 gal....... I set the cruise 5-8 mph over so I run 72-85 mph soo 2400-2650 rpm sustained for 16 hours at a time since I tow that weight at that rpm for 1000 miles at a time and obviously higher rpm when climbing mountains...

I have 255/85/16 (33") tires on the dually up from the stock 235/85/16's (@31") I'm still ok though have to down shift more often now... but had even higher rpm's before.

The Duramax with the 6 speed Allison is turning 1800 in 6th @ 70 on stock rubber. I'll have to put it in manual mode one day and 5th to see what RPM its turning. I don't tow over 60 usually, so would be in 5th anyway. No tunes or anything, it's completely stock, but it doesn't have an EGT gauge, so won't be lugging it too much.

As for RPM, my LBZ duramax makes it's peak HP at 3200. Peak torque is at a lower RPM, but gives an idea that even a diesel can safely turn some RPM's. Believe the redline on it is at 4800? I'd never shoot for that high, and 3200 RPM is my shoot for imaginary redline (though it may hit higher with heavy loads with the Allison grade braking)

But do understand the high RPM's being different to listen to. My 4.3 s-10 cruises at 2200 RPM at 70, and nearly sounds like it's gonna come apart at 3000. It just never revs that high normally, so am not used to the noise of it doing so. It does however like RPM, and really has its pulling power in the higher RPM ranges. I've never seen over 3000 on it though, just isn't needed for the loads I pull with it.

I will say however that after hauling a 2k lb popup home, that the plugged converter made for a significant decrease in power. It was easily staying in overdrive on hills it would have downshifted on before. Couldn't believe the difference, it felt like a new truck. I even had to put it in drive a couple times to keep it from hunting between gears pulling a hill. The thing about a converter is that it usually plugs gradually, so it isn't something you're going to notice really until completely plugged and it's fixed.

But it could be that you just need to push the skinny pedal, and also look for a loose heat shield or a rattling loose baffle in the muffler. The transmission is most likely okay, but even if it needs replaced again, it would still be much less than a two year old 1/2 ton truck. It will always be cheaper to fix than replace, unless its a bad frame or something (I've even replaced those before, buy a ford and you'll be replacing it at some point....

 

[Scott Danforth]

if you are only turning mid 3000 RPM's, there is your problem. your motor is made to go to 5500 RPM without a problem that is not racing the motor. it is simply using the motor for what it is intended - pulling your boat. you are cutting your truck off at the knees. this is not a truck issue, this is a driver technique issue