Is my trailer tongue bent

[seanymph85]

I had some reason to believe my trailer tongue might be bent upwards from some incident prior to my purchasing the boat and trailer. So the following is what I did to see if my thinking on that was correct.

Okay, here is where I am at on the question of whether or not the keel or trailer tongue may be bent. I thought about the fact that the V-shaped steel strap/brace underneath the frame and coupler was bent. So I figured if it was bent because the coupler had come loose and the trailer came off the towing vehicle at some point then there was also a good chance the 2x2 tongue of the trailer had been bent upwards towards the keel or bow of boat. Which could explain the picture I posted previously.

In any case, what I proceeded to do was attempt to level the back part of the trailer with the boat which was mostly empty and had no motor on it. Once I had that close to level I took a 6' level and placed it on bottom of the end of the front most part of the back end of the trailer near where the tongue was bolted to it and the other end not far from the coupler and checked the level there. Needless to say to obtain a point close to level doing that I had to lower the end of level closest to coupler aboout 3 1/2 inches to get the bubble to a point where it showed level. So if my method or logic is not greatly flawed since the boat was on the trailer or something it would appear this strongly indicates that the tongue of the trailer was bent upwards in some sort of accident at some point or another prior to purchasing it. Does this appear logical to you based on the information provided? If so I expect I will either need to have it taken off and straightened at a trailer repair facility and or through them a body shop so the tube can be straightened. I wonder given the labor if it would be cheaper to get a new tube if needed but then it still would have to be installed to a point of being lined up with back end of trailer and a point of level as well. Any thoughts on this are appreciated and hopefully my thinking on this is on the right track to solving this problem correctly. I guess a laser level :laser: would help verify my concerns but I do not have one and am not certain I would know how to use it correctly to verify this issue and thought process.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

A bubble level will give you a level reading. Not straight.

A straightedge laid on top, or under, of the tube will tell you if you have a bow. I suspect you can use your 6 foot level as a straightedge.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Best way is with a chalk line. Tie one end to the rear and pull it to the tongue. If there is a gap then it's bent. You can do this from both the top side and the bottom side of the trailer.

Looks to be as though the hull is not sitting flat and level on the trailer. Appears the transom is higher than the bow. The picture shows a keel roller at midship. If another roller was placed forward of that point using the same mount and same size roller then the keel should be level unless the keel is hooked.

 

[gm280]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Best way is with a chalk line. Tie one end to the rear and pull it to the tongue. If there is a gap then it's bent. You can do this from both the top side and the bottom side of the trailer.

Looks to be as though the hull is not sitting flat and level on the trailer. Appears the transom is higher than the bow. The picture shows a keel roller at midship. If another roller was placed forward of that point using the same mount and same size roller then the keel should be level unless the keel is hooked.

I second what bonz states. A simple line pulled from the back center to the very front center will show anything wrong. I know because I am presently reworking a trailer and replaced an old stamped out trailer tongue ( [ ] ) with a quality 3" x 3" x 3/16" box tongue myself. And I used a snap line to do just that AND check for side to side dimensions too! Looking at your picture it looks as if your bow (actually the boat itself) is angled down instead of adjusted level with the rest of the boat. It looks like you have some adjusting to do with the bunks in the body of the trailer yet. Let us know what you find out with the pulled line...

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Also looking closer it appears there is another roller forward that has a collapsed mount and the roller is sitting against the frame.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Yea, I would go with the chaulk (or tight) line approach to see if the frame members are true (straight). I would think that is a bit more precise than checking the level at various parts of the trailer. A laser level could do pretty much the same thing as a tight string/chaulk line.

Any chance you can get the boat off the trailer to check these things? (just going by your pictures) Keep in mind that depending on the amount of load on the trailer, etc., it will bend with the boat on it.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

The 3rd roller from the back end of the trailer which is visible on the left side of the picture is the last roller on the trailer. There may be something from the other side of the boat showing though on the picture near the end of the keel to give that impression. That last roller and bracket on the left is in decent condition. Though I can see why the picture might make it appear as though there were a collapsed roller assembly to the right side of the picture near the end of the keel.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

So even though with taking the level reading from the front of the back portion of the trailer to the front portion of the tongue it appears the tongue is 3 1/2" higher at that point it doesn't necessarily indicate that area of the tongue is bent upwards by that amount? I know it doesn't tell if the tongue is true to the center of the rest of the frame, but I thought it might indicate the tongue is at least somewhat bent upwards. I guess my logic was flawed on this.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Yes, I think I can manage to get the boat off the trailer to try the string line, but find myself wondering if any brackets etc are on the surface such as where the bolts fasten the tongue to the rest of the trailer if that will interfere with finding out if there is a bow that way. unless to check the possible bow on the surface of the frame the string does not have to be run in the exact center of the trailer. There is very little still in the boat and only a trolling motor still on the back end of the boat. I do not have the bunk boards and brackets on right now so it might make things more difficult in off loading the boat. Still the boat is setting level on the trailer as I have temporaily compensated for the bunk boards being off by using a support board from floor to side of boat to level it. I am in the process of trying to ascertain the proper length of Swivel/bolster brackets I will need to replace the other 4 brackets of two different types. I was hoping to find that type of info on the forum somewhere.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

If I understand this correctly: If I pull the string line from the top of the trailer if there is a gap it would tell me if the tongue were bent upwards. Where if I did it from the bottom and the tongue were bent upwards I wouldn't necessarily have the same result unless I just go by the fact that the string was touching the bottom of the frame at all contact points and the tongue was above the string when past last contact point on the back portion of the trailer, Is that thinking correct?

 

[gm280]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

If I understand this correctly: If I pull the string line from the top of the trailer if there is a gap it would tell me if the tongue were bent upwards. Where if I did it from the bottom and the tongue were bent upwards I wouldn't necessarily have the same result unless I just go by the fact that the string was touching the bottom of the frame at all contact points and the tongue was above the string when past last contact point on the back portion of the trailer, Is that thinking correct?

Yes, you indeed understand the concept correctly and can read from the bottom that way. There is a way to read from the top of the trailer once the boat is removed even if the rollers are in the way. Take two equally long boards or most anything you can simply clamp at the back center of your trailer and at the very front of the tongue making sure both items are exactly the same height above the trailer/tongue itself. Then stretch a tight line between those two points and it will clear any obstructions allowing you to measure and read using any ruler, yardstick, measuring tape or whatever you chose. It there is any difference between those tow points, or any place in between, then you will have your answer... :happy:

 

[limitout]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

If I understand this correctly: If I pull the string line from the top of the trailer if there is a gap it would tell me if the tongue were bent upwards. Where if I did it from the bottom and the tongue were bent upwards I wouldn't necessarily have the same result unless I just go by the fact that the string was touching the bottom of the frame at all contact points and the tongue was above the string when past last contact point on the back portion of the trailer, Is that thinking correct?

pretty much but you should notice it doesn't touch the tongue until the end does if its straight because if its bent it will be touching in the middle before the end makes contact. conversely by stringing it on top you not only see if its bent but measuring the center where the string is off of the tongue tells you just how bent it really is.

it is important to note that your boat hull may be curved and giving you false impressions of what you see and likewise rollers in poor condition will not be supporting things correctly so that needs to be fixed before you can diagnose any tongue alignment issues.

with the boat off of the trailer you can measure ground clearance to a flat surface such as a driveway. first level the tongue and then check the middle and both ends measured to the ground, they should be almost the same. a slight bend is nothing to bother with. next level the trail frame then see if the tongue is also level. if not measure your tongue again, you might have an issue where the trailer connection is and that is where you need to correct the alignment.

after you fix your roller issues so they are all in good working order, you should also put a string line on the rollers and see if they are in a straight line. even though they usually are, im not saying they need to be, especially if you have a curved hull but this will be info to help you understand why things look the way they do.

 

[Grub54891]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

It might be the pic,but is the boat itself bent? Looks like it to me. I also think another roller should be there,where it looks like a colapsed one as stated earlier.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

It might be the pic,but is the boat itself bent? Looks like it to me. I also think another roller should be there,where it looks like a colapsed one as stated earlier.

There is of course a possibility the keel is bent, but I can tell you the boats current position is because the previous owner had it to far back on the trailer and it has recently been moved forward approximately 18.5" forward on the trailer. The keel sat on all 3 existing rollers and the bow and or keel on the front of the boat did not tip towards the trailer then like it does now after having moved it forward. I expect to be able to check the keel for a "dip" at any point after taking it off the boat to check the trailer with a string line. I am hoping to get help so the second person can take a picture of what I did and show visible results from the string line being stretched from back to front. Hopefully if anything as I imagine it is on the trailer is off significantly as I expect it may be I will be able to add dimesnions to illustrate how much it is off at a given point. Right now, I suspect and am hoping because the tongue is bent upwards towards the keel significantly it is the primary reason for the distance on the front of the keel near the bow being so small as compared to the other (left) side of the picture by the front most roller. I also suspect and will verify that if I add a roller at the same height of the others near the front (bow end) of the keel, if the trailer tongue is bent as it appears to be it will likely raise the keel off at the present 3rd or front most keel roller. Hopefully this being realtive to the fact that if the tongue does turn out to be bent upwards as much as it appears the mounting point of a 4th roller under the keel will be higher than the others due to the tongue being bent. I will try to get out there today and pull a string line from underneath the boat to see what that reveals and when I can get the boat off the trailer I was thinking I could turn it upside down and use a straight edge on the keel and or string line from one end to the other to verify if the keel is bent or to what degree. Either way when I get the tongue concern taken care of I fully intend to add that 4th keel roller. I have already researched a few non-welded options for doing so.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Best way is with a chalk line. Tie one end to the rear and pull it to the tongue. If there is a gap then it's bent. You can do this from both the top side and the bottom side of the trailer.

Looks to be as though the hull is not sitting flat and level on the trailer. Appears the transom is higher than the bow. The picture shows a keel roller at midship. If another roller was placed forward of that point using the same mount and same size roller then the keel should be level unless the keel is hooked.

I checked the distance from the bottom of the keel to the top of the frame at the back of the trailer and where the third roller towards the front of the trailer and got the same distance on both places. I ran a string line on the top of the trailer with the boat still on as the middle brace in the trailer was a slightly smaller height. In any case I attempted to measure as accurately as I could as to how far below the top of the tongue the string was at this point. At the end of the keel the string was approximately 3' lower than the top of the tongue. Going further towards the coupler this distance only increased. It is quite cold and snow on the ground here so it is not the easiest to take the boat off the trailer and check things on both boat and trailer that way. Nevertheless if I did that right it still appears to me the tongue is bent upwards significantly. Further though my old garage floor is far from perfectly level and smooth I measure from the top of the frame near where the tongue attaches to the trailer and it was 15 1/2" to the floor there and at the end of the keel the top of the frame was 17 1/2 to the floor. Again with proceeding towards the coupler that distance only increased. This is all with the back part of the frame beyond where the tongue attaches was level and the tongue was allot higher at the center of the coupler. Basically at a point between the axles the frame was level and on the front of the trailer with the tongue raised enough to obtain level on the back is where I took those measurements. I am attaching a couple of pictures that may or may not indicate a point near the end of the tongue where it attaches to the frame is bent. Again, any input on this is appreciated. I have also found a trailer shop an hour from here where they will take measurments etc to see what is going on and make reccomendations for $15. They work with a body shop to that may be able to straighten the tongue and align the frame if needed. An estimate of that repair expense would be provided with the examination of the trailer. I also understand the boat may still be tipped from front towards the back somewhat but think the above info may still indicate what I suspected that the tongue of the trailer is indeed bent upwards.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Again, any input on this is appreciated.

View attachment 220378

Ayuh,.... Usin' a few paragraphs would make it Alota less Painful to read yer posts,...

A picture taken from Feet away, insteada inches away would be a Big help,....

It probably is bent, from an overload or something,...
It could probably be straightened with a couple of jacks, abit of chain, 'n some time,...

It depends on how Handy you are, 'n how many toys ya got in yer toolbox,......

 

[limitout]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

before spending money trying to straighten the tongue (which I think is never going to be as strong afterwards) I would look into buying a replacement tongue for it.

its just a plain galvanized box tube in a 3"x3" size (most likely) and you can get a replacement from anybody that builds trailers or a metal fab shop or other metal supply company for about the same price they would charge for labor to straighten your old rusty one.

also there is a good possibility you can loosen the u-bolt and put shims under the bracket to raise the "A" portion of the frame to align things if its not that far off. you might just need to slide a 1/4" of 1/2" plate under there and bolt it back tight.

I have concerns of how everything is fitting because your trailer looks to have been previously repaired (jerry rigged) to no longer tilt and the way you described it, it sounds like the trailer is too small for the boat and that could be why it is bent.

you should post some pictures for us, show the entire side view of the boat on the trailer so we see it from motor to the hitch. next take a picture from the front by the winch just above the frame height looking right down the keel and the opposite view from the rear looking forward so we see the keel and rollers and how it all looks.

this will help us give you more accurate advise on what to do next.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

before spending money trying to straighten the tongue (which I think is never going to be as strong afterwards) I would look into buying a replacement tongue for it.

its just a plain galvanized box tube in a 3"x3" size (most likely) and you can get a replacement from anybody that builds trailers or a metal fab shop or other metal supply company for about the same price they would charge for labor to straighten your old rusty one.

also there is a good possibility you can loosen the u-bolt and put shims under the bracket to raise the "A" portion of the frame to align things if its not that far off. you might just need to slide a 1/4" of 1/2" plate under there and bolt it back tight.

I have concerns of how everything is fitting because your trailer looks to have been previously repaired (jerry rigged) to no longer tilt and the way you described it, it sounds like the trailer is too small for the boat and that could be why it is bent.

you should post some pictures for us, show the entire side view of the boat on the trailer so we see it from motor to the hitch. next take a picture from the front by the winch just above the frame height looking right down the keel and the opposite view from the rear looking forward so we see the keel and rollers and how it all looks.

this will help us give you more accurate advise on what to do next.

Attached are some pictures from prior posts regarding position of bunk boards relative to transom, position of winch on tongue and position of transom relative to bunkboards and end of trailer cross member. If I can get some more current pictures as mentioned above I will add them as soon as I can. I will mention the tongue is fairly long and is 2x2 steel. The current DL coupler is welded on. The motor is not on at present and the bunks are off so even though the boat is level side to side it is not necessarily level front to back even though keel is on all three rollers presently. I could provide the total length of the trailer later and I believe the 14R is listed as around 13' 6" in length. The boat is in the garage presently and I am uncertain I can get back far enough from the side view to take current pictures. Though I will see what I can do and will show how the tongue was temporarily supported to obtain a level back end of the trailer. As mentioned before there is a ding in the hull on the bow end but it is in from of the end of the keel. Again this boat did not set tipped like it is when the boat was to the back of the trailer as when I first got it. However given the transom was not well supported it was suggested to try to make adjustments to the position of the transom relative to the end of the trailer and to the ends of the bunk boards. So doing so led to this point in time. the winch position was moved significantly forward to be able to move the whole boat forward. This led to the boat sitting tipped as it is on the trailer and to discovering the degree of apparent bend in the tongue. I assume from what you said and what I discovered about the tongue I will need to see if I can purchase a new one in the area somewhere. I will mention regarding the manner in which the tongue appears to be fastened to the trailer that there appears to be a u-bolt in fromt of the end of the tongue and a large bolt perhaps 1/2-5/8 diameter I am guessing appearing to go down through the end of the tongue around 1/3 of the way back towards the end of the trailer. I will get back to you when I can get more pictures and measurements.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Here is a link to some prior post topics on bunk adjustment that might help provide some insight on how I came to notice the degree of bend on the tongue. There are two pages with some pix posted here and there throughout the posts coveing two pages.

title: 1985 Sea Nymph 14 R V hull boat bunk adjustment questions
http://forums.iboats.com/trailers-t...-adjustment-questions-633860.html#post4436579

 

[seanymph85]

Re: Is my trailer tongue bent

Ayuh,.... Usin' a few paragraphs would make it Alota less Painful to read yer posts,...

A picture taken from Feet away, insteada inches away would be a Big help,....

It probably is bent, from an overload or something,...
It could probably be straightened with a couple of jacks, abit of chain, 'n some time,...

It depends on how Handy you are, 'n how many toys ya got in yer toolbox,......

Yea, I know the posts are too long. Just trying to hard to give info to answer questions asked I guess.
I would like to think I am fairly handy but do have limited tools. I guess if I could take the tongue out I would be able to have a better idea if it is just tipped upward in the mounting or is actually significantly bent. Either way it appears it may need replaced.