Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

[four winns 214]

The safety cables on the tongue of my trailer need to be replaced. For a variety of reasons, I'd like to switch to chains. The boat and trailer combination weighs 5950 pounds. The length from tongue attach point to hitch attach point is 25 inches. Two questions: What size chain and how long should it be so that there is enough slack to accommodate turns while being short enough to catch the tongue should it become detached from the ball. The coiled cable in use now is much too long so it's not suitable to use as a template.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

The safety cables on the tongue of my trailer need to be replaced. For a variety of reasons, I'd like to switch to chains. The boat and trailer combination weighs 5950 pounds. The length from tongue attach point to hitch attach point is 25 inches. Two questions: What size chain and how long should it be so that there is enough slack to accommodate turns while being short enough to catch the tongue should it become detached from the ball. The coiled cable in use now is much too long so it's not suitable to use as a template.

you will have to buy some chain and try it and see whats the best length for your boat. We have no idea what set-up you have, ie, drop hitch ect. You don't want the chains to drag but you don't want them to short that you can't turn or get them hooked up properly.

The idea is if the trailer comes loose from the ball on the truck, the chains will keep the trailer tounge off the ground and keep some control. If you don't already have one, get a trailer coupler with a locking pin, then you won't have to worry about the trailer coming off.

I haven't seen a trailer manufacturer use cable for safety cable in a long time. I like 3/8 size chain. If you don't already have one, you should also have a safety chain that goes to the bow eye.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

Cables are becoming the standard equipment on more and more trailers. They are standard on Loadrite trailers and I’ve never seen a pair of chains on a horse trailer.

The beef a while back was that nobody made them heavy enough. Now they come in sizes up to #10K pounds. I changed my rusted out chains for a set of #7000 cables three years ago and never looked back.

If you think a chain is going to keep a tongue up off the ground think again. The OP says from the tongue to the hitch is 25”. I’m betting that the tongue of the trailer isn’t that high off the ground so how does a 25-30” chain at a minimum, keep the hitch from dropping 20” or so to the ground?

Then again, what is the purpose of keeping the tongue off the ground in the first place? So the breakaway doesn’t actuate and the rig comes crashing into your back window? I’d rather have the trailer drop back actuating the break way system so it can do its thing.

 

[four winns 214]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

I'm changing out my rusted, plastic encased cables. At the local valet launch storage yard, it's about 50-50 cable vs. chain. I'm going to attempt to find the right size chain and set it up as directed by documentation supplied by my new coupler. One issue with pre-made cables in my particular application is that if they're long enough to work, they're too long.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

The difference between long enough and too short/tight and too long, is only one chain link in length, and that can be taken up with a twist of the chains if needed. It is almost impossible to get them too short. If you can get the s hooks on the receiver tabs, they are not too short. And if you have the long throat hooks on your chains, they may be too long.

Only a very small percentage of rigs will actually fulfill the requirement of preventing the tongue from hitting the pavement.

The chains attach too far back on the trailer.
And the chains attach too low on the tow vehicle.
And the receiver inserts are too long.

Try it some day. Hook everything up and then lift the coupler off the ball and set it on the chains. And try not to get smashed when the trailer rolls forward.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

Cables are becoming the standard equipment on more and more trailers. They are standard on Loadrite trailers and I’ve never seen a pair of chains on a horse trailer.

The beef a while back was that nobody made them heavy enough. Now they come in sizes up to #10K pounds. I changed my rusted out chains for a set of #7000 cables three years ago and never looked back.

If you think a chain is going to keep a tongue up off the ground think again. The OP says from the tongue to the hitch is 25”. I’m betting that the tongue of the trailer isn’t that high off the ground so how does a 25-30” chain at a minimum, keep the hitch from dropping 20” or so to the ground?

Then again, what is the purpose of keeping the tongue off the ground in the first place? So the breakaway doesn’t actuate and the rig comes crashing into your back window? I’d rather have the trailer drop back actuating the break way system so it can do its thing.

You haven't been trailering long have you,lol So you rather your chains break away and rely on the brake stop to control the trailer?

Anytime you can keep your trailer attached, even if it is by only the chains, you are far better off than having the trailer come off completely. The brake away brake is a last resort.

And yes, properly set-up hitch and safety chains will in fact keep the trailer tongue off the ground, but it has to be set up correctly. Its not just having the right length chains, its having the right hook up points on the hitch and on the trailer, you also have to cross the chains for this to work when they are hooked up. If the chains are not crossed they are pretty much worthless. Also have to have the proper tow vehicle and know what to do in the case that the trailer happens to come off. Guess I will have to supply some pics later.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

You haven't been trailering long have you,lol So you rather your chains break away and rely on the brake stop to control the trailer?

Anytime you can keep your trailer attached, even if it is by only the chains, you are far better off than having the trailer come off completely. The brake away brake is a last resort.

And yes, properly set-up hitch and safety chains will in fact keep the trailer tongue off the ground, but it has to be set up correctly. Its not just having the right length chains, its having the right hook up points on the hitch and on the trailer, you also have to cross the chains for this to work when they are hooked up. If the chains are not crossed they are pretty much worthless. Also have to have the proper tow vehicle and know what to do in the case that the trailer happens to come off. Guess I will have to supply some pics later.

Good answer. What the OP has to remember is the chain and s hook needs to be rated for the weight of load.Had a trailer come off the ball when i hit a dip on a back road and the trailer layed right down on the chains.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

You haven't been trailering long have you,lol So you rather your chains break away and rely on the brake stop to control the trailer?

Well, if we don't count towing around a hay wagon on the farm, I've been pulling, horse trailers, boat trailers, heavy equipment trailers, campers, air compressors and welders around for about as long as you?ve been alive.

So you rather your chains break away and rely on the brake stop to control the trailer?

I need you to help me out here. I've read my post 3 times now. I still can't figure out where it said that the chains should break away. Once you point that out I'd be glad to explain the intent of the sentence.

BTW: I don't use chains becouse they go about 6 months before they start rusting and make a mess out of everything.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

... I still can't figure out where it said that the chains should break away. .

I didn't see that either.

The suggested operation would go something like this...
Safety Chains are on the long side.
Hitch comes off ball.
Hitch drops to ground and drags.
Trailer drops back pulling emergency breakaway cable.
Trailer brakes lock up.
Trailer continues to follow tow vehicle being dragged by the chains, like dragging a dog on a leash.
Everything come to a stop still more or less in trail.

The other option is...
Safety Chains are on the short side and Crossed.
Hitch comes off ball.
Hitch is held up by chains.
Breakaway cable does NOT actuate trailer brakes.
Tow vehicle applies brakes.
Trailer tongue swings up under tow vehicle striking whatever if finds.
Now the Dog just ran between your legs and the leash is dragging you.

Take your choice!

I feel a lot better about my long cables now.
Now I need to go out and make sure the Breakaway Cable is shorter that the Safety cables.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

You haven't been trailering long have you,lol So you rather your chains break away and rely on the brake stop to control the trailer?
...
And yes, properly set-up hitch and safety chains will in fact keep the trailer tongue off the ground, but it has to be set up correctly. Its not just having the right length chains, its having the right hook up points on the hitch and on the trailer, you also have to cross the chains for this to work when they are hooked up. If the chains are not crossed they are pretty much worthless. Also have to have the proper tow vehicle and know what to do in the case that the trailer happens to come off. Guess I will have to supply some pics later.

What happens on a dynamic moving load is not the same as what you think might happen at rest. To the naked eye, it makes perfect sense that crossing your chains creates a nice little basket for your tongue to gently rest in, and everything is good. What happens in real life is that crossed chains can in fact be more dangerous! Let me explains...

So if you are going down the road at 75 and the hitch pops off. The drag of the trailer will cause it to slow down almost instantly. The tongue does not drop down, but goes backwards. Given the right conditions, it will be nearly horizontal to where it left the ball. Now think of what the cross chains are going to do, the coupler is going to find a way to escape the basket relatively quickly. So now you are thinking, ok, no harm no foul, its still connected at least. Well, if the chains are crossed, the trailer is going to start oscillating. Basically the tongue will go a little to one side, but the opposite side chain is going to overcorrect it to that side. Now repeat that process about twice a second.

Anyway, the SOLE purpose for safety chains is to keep the trailer attached to the vehicle one way or another should the coupler pop off. If you are accomplishing that primary goal, it really doesn't matter

 

[rbh]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

Just going to add my .02c
Get commercial grade chain thats annadized/coated, the links should support your trailer weight+ on each side.
IE 6000 pound boat+trailer 2 runs of 8000-10.000 pound rated chain (for the snap)
Weld to frame not bolted (bolts are the weak link over time)
Hooks should be commercialy rated "with snaps"
Length of chain is determind by jackknifing the unit attached to the tow vehicle, chain should be snugged/tight up on the long axcess, remember chain should be crossed to cup the reach if it comes off, this gives you the driver some horizontal control to bring the trailer to a stop.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

What happens on a dynamic moving load is not the same as what you think might happen at rest. To the naked eye, it makes perfect sense that crossing your chains creates a nice little basket for your tongue to gently rest in, and everything is good. What happens in real life is that crossed chains can in fact be more dangerous! Let me explains...

So if you are going down the road at 75 and the hitch pops off. The drag of the trailer will cause it to slow down almost instantly. The tongue does not drop down, but goes backwards. Given the right conditions, it will be nearly horizontal to where it left the ball. Now think of what the cross chains are going to do, the coupler is going to find a way to escape the basket relatively quickly. So now you are thinking, ok, no harm no foul, its still connected at least. Well, if the chains are crossed, the trailer is going to start oscillating. Basically the tongue will go a little to one side, but the opposite side chain is going to overcorrect it to that side. Now repeat that process about twice a second.

Anyway, the SOLE purpose for safety chains is to keep the trailer attached to the vehicle one way or another should the coupler pop off. If you are accomplishing that primary goal, it really doesn't matter

I have to totally disagree with almost all of what you said. But your mind is made up, so be it.

You all know that there are laws that govern safety chains on trailers, right?



Hmmmm, I wonder how to calculate the size of the chain needed, with a 6000# tow vehicle moving at 65 mph, towing a 5000# trailer, that suddenly has the anchor buried in the asphalt, like when the tongue comes off the hitch and gets planted into the blacktop?

 

[rbh]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

I have to totally disagree with almost all of what you said. But your mind is made up, so be it.

You all know that there are laws that govern safety chains on trailers, right?



Hmmmm, I wonder how to calculate the size of the chain needed, with a 6000# tow vehicle moving at 65 mph, towing a 5000# trailer, that suddenly has the anchor buried in the asphalt, like when the tongue comes off the hitch and gets planted into the blacktop?

I would go with chain/chains that would handle twice the GVW of the trailer minumum.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

hmmmm, i wonder how to calculate the size of the chain needed, with a 6000# tow vehicle moving at 65 mph, towing a 5000# trailer, that suddenly has the anchor buried in the asphalt, like when the tongue comes off the hitch and gets planted into the blacktop?

lol

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

I would go with chain/chains that would handle twice the GVW of the trailer minumum.

Sounds good.
I have 3500# chains on my rigs, which are 1200-1800#.
And 5000# chains on my 2200# rig. Nice 1/4" Fulton brand chains

I think the key here is to err on the side of safety.
Try your hardest to get the right setup, and keep the tongue from hitting the ground in the event of an uncoupling.

 

[rbh]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

Sounds good.
I have 3500# chains on my rigs, which are 1200-1800#.
And 5000# chains on my 2200# rig. Nice 1/4" Fulton brand chains

I think the key here is to err on the side of safety.
Try your hardest to get the right setup, and keep the tongue from hitting the ground in the event of an uncoupling.

They don't deduct points or ticket for being over safe.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

... Anyway, the SOLE purpose for safety chains is to keep the trailer attached to the vehicle one way or another should the coupler pop off. If you are accomplishing that primary goal, it really doesn't matter

The greatest advantage to crossing the chains is in a sharp turn.
With UN-Crossed chains, the outside chain tightens up and the inside chain goes slack.
With Crossed Chains the slack remains mostly constant.

As far as catching the tongue, it is just a crap shoot.
Might be recommended for trailers WITHOUT brakes.
With brakes you're back to the crap shoot.
Long Safety Chains and a Short Breakaway Cable looks like the best option.

...You all know that there are laws that govern safety chains on trailers, right? ...

The laws of physics have been there since the dawn of time and they always trump bureaucratic laws.

 

[rbh]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

The greatest advantage to crossing the chains is in a sharp turn.
With UN-Crossed chains, the outside chain tightens up and the inside chain goes slack.
With Crossed Chains the slack remains mostly constant.

As far as catching the tongue, it is just a crap shoot.
Might be recommended for trailers WITHOUT brakes.
With brakes you're back to the crap shoot.
Long Safety Chains and a Short Breakaway Cable looks like the best option.




The laws of physics have been there since the dawn of time and they always trump bureaucratic laws.

Going on the assumption that your trailer "has" brakes, if your trailer dismounts from the ball/pintle etc the first thing your going to do is hit the brakes and hard, which is not recomended as your trying to bring the trailer to a complete stop under control the best that you can, but assuming that the wiring harness is still hooked up you can feather the truck and trailer to the edge of the road safetly (with electric brakes) with surge brakes you want that breakaway line taunter than electric in the case of a breakaway as you have no other braking except for a full lockup.

And if you have no brakes your going to get a boat and trailer in the back of your head!

Now for the chains, they need to be the right length (just enough for the reach when it pivots to go from one side of the bumper to the other when being crossed, complete jack knife) + the tongue weight of the trailer + the safety brakes being applied causing drag allows you the operator to more safetly control your truck and trailer till you get it pulled over.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

Part of Dingbats statement is " quote" I’d rather have the trailer drop back actuating the break way system so it can do its thing."Un quote" In order for this to happen the trailer must be leaving the tow vehicle.Which means the chains didn't do there job.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Trailer to Truck Safety Chains

Well, if we don't count towing around a hay wagon on the farm, I've been pulling, horse trailers, No big deal, heavy equipment trailers, , air compressors and welders around for about as long as you’ve been alive. Really And all of this makes you a professional
I need you to help me out here. I've read my post 3 times now. I still can't figure out where it said that the chains should break away. Once you point that out I'd be glad to explain the intent of the sentence.


BTW: I don't use chains becouse they go about 6 months before they start rusting and make a mess out of everything.

And how long would that be? Farm haulers just did what they did. Nothing required by law, or safety minded. They did what it took to get the job done in the quickest time.I have been there so don't tell me how they did things.No but your statement leaves alot to be Interrupted. It could be construed anyway anybody wants to interrupet it.I used to pull double 45ft trailers across the NY Turnpike. I think you have alot to learn before you might say that to me. You ever see what they look like pulling into the hammer lane?