Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

[elkhunter338]

My question is shouldn't I beable to skid my tires when I try and back up a hill without using the reverse solinoid?
The reason I ask is because I just installed 10" disc brakes (4600lb trailer/boat) and used the 600lb/6,000lb surge unit. Max 600lb hitch weight, max 6,000 lb trailer.
Bleed the brakes and such. So to test them I tried backing up a slight incline on hard pack gravel and the brakes to provide a fair amount of resistance, surge was all the way pushed in. The tires would not slide.
I was expecting the tires to slide.
Only two things I can think of the surge unit does not produce enough pressure.
Or I still have some air in the lines, which I do not think this is the case.
Do others have similar braking using surge brakes?
If this is the case I guess the only way to get more braking is to add electric/hydralic or add brakes to the other axle.

 

[marcoalza]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

EH, When I try back up with my trailer without the reverse pin I cannot back up as the wheel are locked solid.
If your wheel do not eventually lock then I think there is a problem.
I would initially try bleeding the brakes again.

 

[dockwrecker]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

With no reverse lockout solenoid or pin you aren't going anywhere backwards. Also did you change the master cylinder to a disc brake type? Drum masters don't work with discs. You can't just install discs in place of drums.

 

[jeffnick]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

Might try forward, brake, backward, brake a few times...if that doesn't work
I'd re-bleed. The actuator shouldn't go all the way in.

 

[Bob's Garage]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

If you bled the brake lines by hand, w/o the plug connected to the vehicle, the solenoid will have air in it. It wont be much, just a bubble, but enough to be a problem.

If they aren't locking up in reverse, then they probably are not working in forward.

Try re-bleeding them with the connector attached to the vehicle, with the vehicle in reverse, then test them.

 

[Guest]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

Dockworker has it spot on You need to lock out the surge brake when backing up either mechanicly or with a solinoid. There is no other way to do it.

 

[Bob's Garage]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

Some of you guy's aren't getting it, his problem is that the brakes are not locking when in reverse.

 

[EddiePetty]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

Try lubricating the slides on your coupler. Ours has two grease fittings for just that purpose.
I have found that if I reverse slowly with an emprty trailer, our brakes do not engage, however, just a burp on the throttle when backing will lock the brakes. When the trailer is loaded I have to use the lock-out to prevent the brakes from locking.

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

Basically is sound like it should be providing more brakes, so I will bleed the brakes again.
I used a new disc brake actuator.
The actuator for drum brakes can cause the disc brakes to not release all the way, keeping some light pressure applied, thus burning up the brakes.
I know you have to use the reverse lockout to back up, I was bypassing this to test the brakes, I expected to be able to skid the boat tires on the brake axle.
It sounds like I might have some air still in the brake lines.

 

[rogerdb3]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

I am having exactly the same problems with my disc brakes. I have bled almost 1 liter of fluid through them so far hoping to get some air. I have bypassed the reverse selonoid to see if that is the problem. If I pump them with a screwdriver the first pump goes all the way in and then the second pump comes up hard. Leave it for 15 seconds and it is the same again. Always need the second pump to get the brake. Trailer mechanic told me to put the tongue of the trailer down as low as possible before bleeding. I will try that.

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

That sounds like a try, let me know if that works.
I am going to take mine on about a 400 mile trip soon, I plan to bleed the brakes after I get my destination. I read on a trailer web site that the recommended bleeding the brakes after 100 miles.
I will post my results in about 3 weeks.

 

[rogerdb3]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

Today I lowered the tongue right down on the ground and bled all 4 wheels again. The last wheel I got some air out of and I have brakes!! I am taking the boat out tomorrow and we will see how it feels on the highway now. I left out the reverse selonoid and will use a pin in it for backing up for now. Good luck with yours.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Surge Brake ?, should it skid the tires backing up

I can skid my brakes on pavement but only with the boat removed. Once the boat is on the trailer ~#5K, no way.