Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

[knightowl]

I have a double axle trailer with Surge Brake System. I completely changed everything to brand new stuff. I changed the Surge brake cylinder, changed the brake lines.. Bled the system by pumping with the leveler with hand (2 people job). I got all 4 tires to spin one full circle before they come to a stop. I hear the brake drums barley touch. Sounds like a good adjustment right?

Well after driving on the road for about 1.5hrs, everything seemed fine.. On the way back home, about 20-30 minutes into the trip, the rear passenger tire started smoking real bad. I had to pull over and check it out. The rear passenger tire was very hot and smokey. I had no choice but to remove the brake line from that brake hub in order to make it home. It still smoke a little here and their but no where near as bad.

I decided to spend another $250 dollars on a complete brake system rebuild. I bought all 4 brand spanking new drums COMPLETE SETS, springs etc. Also bought new bearings. Re-greased everything and recapped with brand new seals.

Drove to the beach (2 hour drive) it was fine. Pulled the boat out of the water and drove about 1 hour. Pull into another river did some fishing. Got the boat back on the trailer and headed home that same day. 20-30 minutes into the drive, same crap happens. The dang rear passenger brake drum smokes up! I had to pull over because it was night time and everyone was honking at me that my rear tire was smoking. I unplugged the brake line once again and headed home. It still smoked a little after I unplugged it but not as bad. Once I got home I lifted the trailer in the air and notice that the rear passenger tire was kinda hard to turn. I loosen the brake tension on the brake drum and went to bed as a not a very happy man. I dumped probably close to $400- $500 bucks into this braking system and I end up with same results. What in the world is going on? Very similar in timing too. Seems like both trips took about 2-3 hours of traveling in order to get the brakes to smoke on Old and New parts.

Thanks for your advice ahead of time. (I hope you enjoyed my novel)

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

I have a double axle trailer with Surge Brake System. I completely changed everything to brand new stuff. I changed the Surge brake cylinder, changed the brake lines.. Bled the system by pumping with the leveler with hand (2 people job). I got all 4 tires to spin one full circle before they come to a stop. I hear the brake drums barley touch. Sounds like a good adjustment right?

So... they barely touch when you spin a cold wheel... Now add some heat from the road/bearings/brakes, and guess what happens. Yep, metal and hydraulic oil expand slightly, and your slightly loose brakes now become seriously dragging brakes!

If you hear them dragging at all, they are too tight. It should spin more than a single turn.

 

[knightowl]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

So whats your recommendation for trailer brake adjustment? Isn't the principle the same as a car or a truck? Adjust the brakes until they just barley touch the drum which usually is 1 to 2-1/2 turns of the wheel.

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

My trailer which is the same as yours at least from your description has a sticker on the backing plate which states, adjust breaks until they contact then back off ten clicks on the adjuster. You want them close but not touching. The return springs were put back in the correct order, and the correct shoe was put towards the front? Not saying it wasn't just something that must be correct for them to work as designed.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

If the rear grease seal is leaking on that wheel, the brake lining may be contaminated and that will cause the brakes to grab and believe me, up here in the tundra in the winter that can lock a wheel so tight it may not release even when backing up. I'm obviously using a car/truck as an example here but the same principle applies to any drum brake system. I also suspect the hardware on that wheel may not be assembled correctly. There are short and long shoes so make sure they installed correctly.

 

[jayhanig]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

I don't have a solution to offer but would ask you that whatever it ends up being, would you please post the answer here so we all can get the benefit of your experience? I'm sorry you're having problems. I know first hand how frustrating it is to throw good money at a problem and it not end up being right.

 

[2300max]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

I have a double axle trailer with Surge Brake System. I completely changed everything to brand new stuff. I changed the Surge brake cylinder, changed the brake lines.. Bled the system by pumping with the leveler with hand (2 people job). I got all 4 tires to spin one full circle before they come to a stop. I hear the brake drums barley touch. Sounds like a good adjustment right?

Well after driving on the road for about 1.5hrs, everything seemed fine.. On the way back home, about 20-30 minutes into the trip, the rear passenger tire started smoking real bad. I had to pull over and check it out. The rear passenger tire was very hot and smokey. I had no choice but to remove the brake line from that brake hub in order to make it home. It still smoke a little here and their but no where near as bad.

I decided to spend another $250 dollars on a complete brake system rebuild. I bought all 4 brand spanking new drums COMPLETE SETS, springs etc. Also bought new bearings. Re-greased everything and recapped with brand new seals.

Drove to the beach (2 hour drive) it was fine. Pulled the boat out of the water and drove about 1 hour. Pull into another river did some fishing. Got the boat back on the trailer and headed home that same day. 20-30 minutes into the drive, same crap happens. The dang rear passenger brake drum smokes up! I had to pull over because it was night time and everyone was honking at me that my rear tire was smoking. I unplugged the brake line once again and headed home. It still smoked a little after I unplugged it but not as bad. Once I got home I lifted the trailer in the air and notice that the rear passenger tire was kinda hard to turn. I loosen the brake tension on the brake drum and went to bed as a not a very happy man. I dumped probably close to $400- $500 bucks into this braking system and I end up with same results. What in the world is going on? Very similar in timing too. Seems like both trips took about 2-3 hours of traveling in order to get the brakes to smoke on Old and New parts.

Thanks for your advice ahead of time. (I hope you enjoyed my novel)

I don't know if this might be your problem/issue but make sure that the brake fluid bowl is at the correct level (don't ask me how I know). When I realized that I overfilled the bowl I found that the the brakes were activated and the actuator ball coupler wouldn't move so the brakes were actually engaged with the any movent with tow vehicle.

 

[mvn]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

I have a tandem axle Eagle trailer with hydraulic surge drum brakes on the rear axle. If I adjust them to Tie Down's procedure while cold, they get very hot after about 1/2 hour of running. When hot, I jacked up the the rear axle and found that both sides were dragging. I readjusted them while hot and with the tires spinning freely, I can manually actuate them from the master cylinder. The rear axle nows runs cool and the brakes aren't grabbing as hard as before. Seems to me that the trick is adjusting them when everything is up to temperature.

Mark

 

[knightowl]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

I have also tried before to NEVER tighten the rear brake tire before and it still auto tightened and smoked so I will try to adjust them when in temp after riding like 30 minutes around town.

Hey i was wondering how thick the actual brake line needs to be. I believe my is a either 1/8 or 3/16 inch line (standard from auto parts store). Do you think a 3/8" brake line is better for Surge type trailer setup?

Also, the bigger shoe needs to be at closest to the rear the trailer and the smaller shoe towards the front of the trailer right?

 

[knightowl]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

bump

 

[knightowl]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

bumpskie

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

If I remember right, the entire brake assembly (backing plate and everything that attaches to it) is a left hand assembly or a right hand assembly.
Not merely which brake shoe is front and which is the rear.
Make sure you have two left units and two right units installed on the correct sides of trailer.

Adjust brakes to touching, run around the block a couple of times and activate the brakes several times to seat them to the drum and to bring them up to temp.
Then adjust them so that they just barely clear.

Nevermind installing bigger brake lines. The ports in the master and wheel cylinders are still the same size as before so it does no good.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

Could you be looking at an overactive auto adjuster? Wrong part, interfering with cylinder, etc.

 

[knightowl]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

I will double check make sure that I have 2 lefts and 2 rights ... it just doesn't makes sense though that one would only get red hot and lock up.

 

[HalfFish5087]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

Knightowl, you might want to double check your bearings are the correct size and were installed correctly.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

I will double check make sure that I have 2 lefts and 2 rights ... it just doesn't makes sense though that one would only get red hot and lock up.

June 30th, 2011, 07:49 PM #1
knightowl

You haven't figured it out yet?

 

[Jonnybbad]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

Drums experience this thing called "brake fade", which is what happens when the drums heat up and expand, increasing the space between the shoe and drum, thusly the brakes working progressively poorer and eventually not at all. I don't follow with this hot adjustment technique. I am no trailer brake guru whatsoever, but I do have a fair amount of automotive drum brake experience and I would say to turn the adjusters until the shoes do not contact the drums at all. You should tighten until you feel the brakes dragging when spinning the hub and then back off until you feel no dragging. This should be done with the brakes cold.

***This is the generic drum brake adjusting technique practiced by myself and may not be for everyone***

Maybe you like to stick your noggin in the microwave for a few minutes prior to putting on your tinfoil hat and summoning the "brakkie thingie adjustment gods". I'm not here to judge folks. If it feels good I say go for it.

Oh and best wishes of brake righteousness to the OP.

 

[knightowl]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

June 30th, 2011, 07:49 PM #1
knightowl

You haven't figured it out yet?

nope I quit on them brakes. I had brand new bearings, brand new everything brake related and this thing started smoking.. After burning so much time on it I just disconnected my trailer brakes in general.... Last year I never took my boat out at all. Since its been couple years now I have finally gathered enough energy to take a look at them once again.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

All rubber brake lines involved been replaced?

Something I've see on cars. Old rubber lines that swell up internally, and act like a check valve. Brake fluid is allowed into line/cylinder via the pressure from the master cylinder (stepping on the brakes). When the pedal is released, the brake fluid doesn't have enough pressure to work its way back through the restricted line in a reasonable amount of time, so the brake locks up.

Test for this is to open up the bleed screw on the tight/frozen wheel, and see if the brakes release. If they do, you have a restriction.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Double Axle trailer rear passenger tire smokes!!

nope I quit on them brakes. I had brand new bearings, brand new everything brake related and this thing started smoking.. After burning so much time on it I just disconnected my trailer brakes in general.... Last year I never took my boat out at all. Since its been couple years now I have finally gathered enough energy to take a look at them once again.

Geez. Feel for ya. Hope you get it figured out without to much trouble.