Towing confusion

sailor55330

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
38
Hello-

I don't post often, but I do find that there's some great experience and info here. Here's my situation--

Tow Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Sequoia, 5.7l, 381hp, 401 ftlbs torque. 4wd. Heavy Duty Tow package, 122 in wheelbase.
Tow rating is 9100lbs "If properly equipped". The integrated hitch is good for 6000/600. The manual states that anything over 5000 requires a WDH. (slghtly confusing, huh?)

I am currently towing a 20ft bow rider on a tandem axle that weighs 4430 at the scales in trailering form. 11.6% tongue weight. No issues at all with surge brakes on the trailer and the truck squats about 1.25". I've towed safely for 20+ years with various trailers.

We are considering moving up to a larger boat, in the 23-25ft range. Most of them have dry weights around 3800-4800 dry, add 270 for fuel. figure another 1500 for trailer. That gets me very close to the max for the integrated hitch, but well under the max tow rating of the vehicle.

Here are the specifics:

GCWR---16,000 as per manual
Curb Weight--6030 as per manual.
Fuel: 175lbs (26X6.7)

Average cargo/passengers: 800 (2 people, 2 dogs, minimal gear,)

Total vehicle weight: 7004 lbs. If I subtract that from the GCWR of 16,000, I get 9,070lbs available, or very close to 9100 as the manual states.

Now, here's the rub--Toyota was an early adopter of the new more conservative towing limits for their vehicles. In 2010, nothing changed for the Sequoia, but the max tow rating dropped to about 7500lbs which changes everything.

So, my conundrum here is what I can safely tow? If I follow the manual, then I need a WDH because I am over 5k. As the community here knows, that is very uncommon on a boat. If I use the integrated hitch, then I'm over the limits, with capacity to spare. If I follow the newer specs, knowing that nothing has changed from 2008, then I'm probably over. My towing is usually within 40 miles, with the longest tow being about 120 miles on flat ground---the biggest hill is an overpass.

Any thoughts are appreciated, except for the ones that always seem to think it's funny to say "do it and post the results on Youtube"----remember, I'm the guy trying to be responsible and may be the one driving next to you when overloaded on your advice!
 

GA_Boater

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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May 24, 2011
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49,038
Won't comment on the WDH.

If your 2008 is 9100 pounds, then that's the number you use. Forget about 2010 or later ratings, only your truck specs count.

But your figures show only 30 under the max. Add a full cooler and you're over the rating. You need a more capable tow vehicle.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
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Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,620
Should not be any confusion . . If the maximum towing for your vehicle is spec'd at 9100 lbs, then you can assume that you can tow up to that limit. I guess you may be wondering if Toyota, having lowered the spec in the subsequent model years of the vehicle with no obvious corresponding change to the vehicle, realized that the spec was too high?

Unless there is a specific publication from Toyota that revises the spec for the 2008 model, I'd go with it. (9100 lbs). But as GA states, you are right at the limit.

If anyone questions your decision, you can say that you checked with the folks on iBoats :D
 

sailor55330

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
38
As I re-read my post, I did not do a good job articulating the numbers. For clarification, my statement of 9000 pounds was what was available to tow after removing the vehicle weight from the GCWR of 16,000.

GCWR: 16,000
Truck Weight 7,004
Trailer Capacity: 8,996 (16,000-7004)

I am thinking the truck could handle the additional weight, but the factory hitch may be the limitation. Does that make more sense? The boat in question is about 6500 lbs w/ trailer (estimated)


Thanks
 

GA_Boater

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
May 24, 2011
Messages
49,038
Ok, so you want know if you can haul 9000 pounds with a 6000 pound hitch. No, you shouldn't do that.

But the possible new boat and trailer rigged will weigh "Most of them have dry weights around 3800-4800 dry, add 270 for fuel. figure another 1500 for trailer." or worst case 6570 pounds with a 6000 pound hitch. Your estimate is off. Even if you put don't anything else in the boat like batteries, safety gear, anchor, toys, coolers etc., none of these are included in dry weight; you will be well over the hitch rating.

Yes, the hitch needs to be upgraded from a Class III to a Class IV with a 10,000 pound rating for safe towing.
 

sailor55330

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
38
Thank you again GA--

As an added twist, I have talked to Toyota corporate customer service and they have verified that the truck's integral hitch is designed to pull up to 9,100 pounds. without the use of a WDH. I have also found this in writing. So, still in a state of confusion, I have multiple documents and sources quoting multiple statistics. Only posting this now for others to learn from.

As for the dry weights list, Based on past experience, I don't add that much--max of 75lbs.(15lb anchor, 25 lb cooler, 5 PFD's and lines). I had already figured the batteries in.

Given that I always error on the side of caution, I don't intend to overload anything as I trust my intuition and gut the most.
 

pullin

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
103
I have a truck similar to yours (Ram 1500, 5.7L, towing package, etc.). It has the "old" tow limits of 10,250 lbs, with 15,500 GCWR.

If it helps with weight guesswork, my old boat was a 23 foot SeaRay with a tandem axle trailer. With full fuel, it weighed 6850 on the CAT scales. The problem with half tons is often the tongue weight. My trailer's TW was about 700 lbs, and I had to use a WD hitch to keep the truck from squatting. I tried two different models of hitches. First was the traditional with trunnion bars and chains. Second was an Equalizer hitch with the solid bars. The equalizer worked much better, and it didn't interfere with the surge brakes (this can be a problem with some WD hitches).

I now have a Sea Ray 270 DA (29'11" and 9'2" wide). It has a MUCH larger trailer (34 feet) and actually maxes right at my GCWR. I installed the Equalizer brand hitch on that trailer and it works very well also. I only tow it a few miles for maintenance and rarely hit the highway with it since it's so heavy. That boat lives in a slip.

Below is a link to the current setup on my big trailer (ignore the wiring, I hadn't dressed it up yet in this pic) :)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...psozgvzdir.jpg


FWIW: I also tow a 35 foot, 8200 lb camper with the truck, but I use a trapezoidal hitch, rather than a ball hitch (Hensley). If you have enough weight distribution, sway control, and brakes, you shouldn't have any problem towing at or near the truck's max. I always use the tow/haul mode on the transmission to ensure a longer period in the lower gears, and to lock out the overdrive/top gear.
 
Last edited:

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
12,944
9100lb on integral hitch, so using 15% hitch weight would mean 1365 lbs. That's almost 3/4 of a ton. You really need to be using a WDH, the life you save, may be your own. I hope you have a very good tranny cooler too
 

charleso

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
179
I have three quick takeaways on this:

1) Upgrade the factory installed receiver hitch.
2) Get a weight distributing hitch. I agree with the
earlier post about the Equalizer brand, it is weight
distribution as well as sway control.
3)Upgrade your transmission cooler. It will pay for
itself. Consider an external tranny filter at the same
time.
I would also look at possibly taking a little weight off the tongue. Just err on the side of caution, a slight change can cause things to get squirrelly quick. If the truck squats too hard, add a helper to the rear springs.
 

SingleShot

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
113
Here's my take on this trailer stuff.

The weight rating on your hitch for 6000/600 is usually listed as GrossTrailer weight "GTW" / tong weight. As someone stated I think that level is a class 3 & you should go to a class 4 for that weight of boat. I agree hauling a 9000 lb trailer with a 6000 lb rated hitch could have issues.

The WDH for weight distribution is to help with the rear axle loading of your vehicle. There is an axle rating on your vehicle that you do not want to overload. If you weighed your vehicle on the rear axle you will know the weight and then add your tong weight. This is in it's most simplest form, in reality your hitch acts as a lever and the loading is not that simple but a good estimation. The best way is to weigh on a scale with your trailer connected. The WDH hitch will remove some of this tong weight "axle loading" and distribute it between the boat trailer axle and the front vehicle axle.
 
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