TCS

[bigdee]

Any have any thoughts on electronic traction control? Any benefits of having it on/off when pulling boat on ramp.

 

[Scott Danforth]

its an automated system for applying the brake on the spinning wheel using the ABS pump to allow the diff to transfer torque to the other wheel. I personally dont like them because when (not if) they fail, its a large amount of money. I prefer a limited slip differential and 4 wheel drive myself.

 

[oldjeep]

Any have any thoughts on electronic traction control? Any benefits of having it on/off when pulling boat on ramp.

Brake based traction control is a mixed bag. At low speeds it can actually stop the drive wheels completely. Luckily on my truck there is an off switch so that I can allow the wheels to spin some and get the truck.moving- mostly in snow and ice.

 

[bigdee]

Brake based traction control is a mixed bag. At low speeds it can actually stop the drive wheels completely. Luckily on my truck there is an off switch so that I can allow the wheels to spin some and get the truck.moving- mostly in snow and ice.

So your saying it is useless from a dead stop? What if you turn it off to get some momentum first then turn it on to gain more traction?

 

[wrvond]

Any have any thoughts on electronic traction control? Any benefits of having it on/off when pulling boat on ramp.

As with any feature that is supposed to "think" for us, there are situations where it simply won't work - or worse. I was once driving a front wheel drive company car in the snow. Turned left onto an uphill street and the wheels started to slip. The TCS kicked in and killed all forward momentum. I could floor the gas pedal and not get that car to move one inch! I turned off the TCS and managed to get moving up the hill and get to a road that had been plowed. Based on this experience I can easily imagine sitting on a slippery ramp trying to pull a boat while the vehicle refuses to move because all the brakes are locked.
Having said that, when your wheels are spinning you definitely lack traction, the question is do you have enough traction that you can generate forward motion while pulling a weight uphill, or do you have so little traction that you are going to get pulled down into the water with wheels spinning furiously all the way down?
I think I'd leave it on by default, then turn it off if it was hindering my forward progress.

 

[oldjeep]

So your saying it is useless from a dead stop? What if you turn it off to get some momentum first then turn it on to gain more traction?

Not always, if one tire is getting traction then it can still work but if they are all slipping you basically stay in place because the brakes stop all the wheels. It is at that point that I flip the switch and roast the tires to get moving

 

[garbageguy]

... What if you turn it off to get some momentum first then turn it on to gain more traction?

"Traction" is dependent on the coefficient of friction between the two surfaces (in this case, tire and snow/ice), and the normal load (weight perdendicular to the interface - depends on the slop you're on) acting on the interface between the two surfaces. The coefficient of static friction (wheels not slipping on ice/snow) is typically greater than the coefficient of dynamic friction (wheels slipping) - so TCS keeps the wheels from slipping, giving you the better (static) coefficient of friction. But if all the force vectors at play are such that the only way the wheels turn is if they slip, your only hope is to turn off the TCS and try to get moving the old fashioned way (roast the tires as jeep said).. wrv said it well, TCS thinks for us, that's all - just like some want to do for us for more and more things...

So, the method you propose might work, as long as you don't need slipping to keep you moving at all. Timing will be key here, and will depend on many factors in each particular situation.

 

[bigdee]

".........which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing."

 

[Scott Danforth]

".........which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing."

unless you have a limited slip differential. that little bit of hardware is well worth its weight in gold when you need it.

 

[jkust]

I've had multiple different Traction Control Systems. Some are just brake based prior to the more modern systems that have brake based traction control combined with the anti rollover type systems (that get lumped together in the title traction control when they are distinct systems) that will reduce power to the 4 wheels independently. On the brake based traction control systems that I had in the past, If I left it on, taking into account the boat weighed as much as the vehicle I was pulling out along with whatever tires I had at the time, the brake based traction control system would rob me of the much needed forward momentum at the exact second I needed it as it detected wheel spin. Shutting it off, when I had crappy tires, allowed me to burn rubber up the slippery ramp and at least get the boat out. When I had good tires, it didn't matter. Fast forward to today and my truck based suv's have all of the modern systems that work together, while I can shut each system off and go old school, I never need to. I have both a mechanical limited slip differential and locking differential Suvs. the locking diff is superior to the limited slip but the computer still manages each individual wheel's power and also brakes each wheel....again those systems can be shut off if I was so inclined. Maybe there could be a time when I need to shut them off, but I never found a ramp that needed that including sugar sand, unmaintained ramps because the rest of the suv just did its job good enough.

 

[Scott06]

I turn it off in snow or on a wet ramp otherwise a little slip and it shuts off the power to the wheels.

in my opinion (value may vary...) most are over sensitive and don't allow as mentioned above you to burn your way up a wet ramp. I use a fwd Highlander to pull a 21 ft bow rider, yes I'm at the edge of capacity, smokes a tire if there is standing water on the ramp with control off. If I didn't shut it off would kill the power and would not get up the ramp for sure, stupid design on an otherwise great vehicle.

 

[David Young]

On both of my vehicles in the owners manual it says, 'when stuck, after a few tries you might have better luck by turning 'off' the traction control'.

 

[bigdee]

So I guess if your stuck turn it off....and....if you leave it on (default)you may not get stuck while moving??? Looks like it has to see vehicle gain some momentum for it to work,not from a dead stop.

 

[Tnstratofam]

".........which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing."

Your Honor I'd like to treat Mrs Vitto as a hostile whitness! :rofl:

 

[harleyman1975]

I'd turn it off until on the highway.

 

[R055]

My buddy has a rwd BMW m3 that he'll take on the snow and get further than most of the awd/4wd vehicles. What helps him is good tires and LSD. Helps when both wheels spin vs only one on a open diff car. He turns traction control off in low speed situations where he may get stuck.

 

[hemi rt]

Traction control will not apply the brakes to all the wheels, it only works on the wheels that have power going to them, on a Rear wheel drive vehicle it only works on the rear wheel, opposite if it's a front wheel drive. On a 4X4 it will work on all four wheels when the vehicle is in 4 wheel drive and only the back wheels when in 2 wheel drive. I think some are thinking of electronic stability control which works on all the wheels and works basically when going around a corner and sees a wheel going faster than the others, then it activates to try and get all the wheels spinning at the same speed and to do this it usually shuts off the power.

 

[jkust]

People conflate, traction control and stability control and electronic limited slip and mechanical limited slip diffs and mechanical locking diffs. I probably forgot a couple.

 

[wrvond]

People conflate, traction control and stability control and electronic limited slip and mechanical limited slip diffs and mechanical locking diffs. I probably forgot a couple.

​My truck has so many electronic whiz bang devices I can't keep up with them. It even has some kind of downhill speed control, which I'll never use I'm sure. :facepalm:

​Reading this thread, I am reminded of when I was much younger - I was taught that when I was stuck in snow or ice to apply the brake and gas at the same time. This allowed power to be applied to both rear wheels even with an open diff. Pretty much the same thing the vehicles today are attempting to do for us. The more things change, the more they stay the same.