A little trailer education please.

[FrizFreleng]

Got a line on a 28' Cargile Cutter weighing around 4400 lbs. It is at a marina, in the water, no trailer. This is going to be a project boat. So I started looking at trailers on Craigslist and quickly realized how much I need to learn. First, does the transom have to line up with the end of the bunks or can there be overhang? One trailer I saw, galvanized steel, had a 25' cabin cruiser on it recently according to the seller. The winch post is about 5'-6' back from the tongue coupler. It kind of looks like the trailer will take a bigger boat. I see room to move the winch post forward about 3'. Is that feasible? Also, how can I determine the weight rating for the trailer? Boat trailers in Florida are not titled but they are registered for tags. The registration does not have the gross trailer weight, only net.

​Friz

 

[smokeonthewater]

The transom needs to line up with the last crossmember... The ends of the bunks extending behind it are useless... A 28' cargile cutter will weigh way more than 4400 lbs... Look for a 10,000 lb trailer and it needs to be at least 110% of the overall length of the boat... In this case 30-35'

You will need 3 5 lug axles or 2 6 or 8 lug axles...

The actual weight will be the dry weight plus fuel, batteries, water, oil, anchor n associated tackle, all installed or stowed gear and the trailer...

This will be a very difficult and expensive trailer to find used.

This is also a LOT of boat to tow if you are not experienced...

If you are set on it you may find it to be a better option to keep it in the water and pay the marina to pull and store it each winter.

 

[mlbinseattle]

Additionally, if the gross trailer weight (trailer, boat, and any extras loaded into the boat) is 40% or greater than the gross tow vehicle weight, you'll want to ensure there are electric brakes on that trailer and that the tow vehicle has the hookup with an electric brake controller. That's a lot of weight even for a 3/4 ton pickup. With that much weight, you don't want the tow vehicle to be the sole source of stopping. Not only is it dangerous to tow without trailer brakes on a load that size, you'll burn up your tow vehicle brakes way before its time.

If you're inexperienced at pulling trailers, I highly suggest you educate yourself, first. This site won't let me post a link, so I suggest you do a search on understanding trailer weight safety. There's a page by Eyers Hitch Center that explains a lot of what you should know.

Also, before you go off changing the winch mount location three feet forward on the tongue, you'd need to determine the tongue weight rating. The tongue weight should not exceed 10% (some say 15%) of the total gross trailer weight, and your hitch should be rated to carry that weight. Shifting 4400 lbs three feet forward is going to affect that tongue weight. Too much weight or not enough weight on that tongue can cause serious headaches.

If you're not experienced pulling trailers, then I'd stick to a manufacturer or dealer suggested boat trailer for that size boat.

 

[FrizFreleng]

Real good advice shipmates. Sincerely thank you. Misprint on my part, the dry weight is 4800. Experience is not really an issue. Have been safely towing my 30' 5th wheel since 1991. In fact I just sold my 1 ton dually diesel and got an F-250 Super Duty 4x4. diesel. The owners manual states the max weight of a trailer and load is 13,500 lbs. Looks like I'll be okay there. So tongue weight is between 600 ? 700 lbs. How or where can I take the rig to measure that much tongue weight? With my 20' pontoon I used a bathroom scale. I had air bags on the dually. Depending on what I was hauling they were a big help. May want to put them on the F-250. Don't have much choice about hard to find and expensive. I have been looking for one of these for over a year. This boat is going to take us to the Bahamas and through the Keys. Got to the Eyers of Santa Clara site. Fortunately, here in Florida winter is not really a season. Also, I live ? hour from the St. Johns river, 1 hour from the Atlantic and 1 hour from the Gulf. I have never been tied down to a single body of water. Looked at the trailer I mentioned. I don?t think there was over 31? from the tongue to last cross member. Also the axles (2) were 5 lug without brakes. Moving the winch post that much would be dangerous.

 

[mlbinseattle]

You can actually buy a tongue-weight scale. Just do a search of tongue-weight scales. The one I saw ran around $140 and could measure tongue weight up to 2,000 lbs. I suppose you could also call a commercial facility with a scale and see how much they'd charge you to let you measure the tongue weight. Of course, you'd have to unhitch from your truck.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Many major truck stops have a scale to weigh your trailer
Also grain co'ops scrap yards and dumps..

Tongue weight is a hotly debated topic here...

Bumper pull trailers are nearly always recommended to have 10-15% tongue weight... Some folks feel that boat trailers should be 7% and others claim that tandem axle trailers should be less than single...

I have set up ALL of my bumper pull trailers for 10-12% for over 20 years.

In order to adjust the tongue weight you will need to be able to move the axles... Many trailers are equipped to adjust axle location with simple hand tools but some require cutting, welding, and steel fabrication.

Some trailers are easily adjusted to the hull and others require again steel fabrication.

 

[smokeonthewater]

The procedure to weigh on a truck scale is as follows:

Pull your vehicle on to the scale making sure the front tires, rear tires, and trailer tires are on separate pads... You will be prompted for company name, truck number and "first weigh or re weigh"
Tell them any name you want and either make up a number or say "none" then tell them first weigh....

Next pull to the parking lot and drop your trailer... Go back to the scale and repeat with front and rear tires on different pads only this time say re weigh.....

Go in pay and collect your weight slips... Usually @$10 for first weigh and $1 for re weigh.

At this point you have everything you need to figure out gross trailer weight, tongue weight, weight transfer from front to rear axle, and you will have your overall gross weight and all a le weights.

 

[jayhanig]

You can actually buy a tongue-weight scale. Just do a search of tongue-weight scales. The one I saw ran around $140 and could measure tongue weight up to 2,000 lbs. I suppose you could also call a commercial facility with a scale and see how much they'd charge you to let you measure the tongue weight. Of course, you'd have to unhitch from your truck.

It's a lot cheaper to go to a facility and get it weighed. I took my Galaxy to the Cat Scale facility in Rocky Point, NC and paid them $10 to weigh my boat, truck and trailer. Here's a link to lookup truck stops with their scales: http://catscale.com/

 

[FrizFreleng]

Got it, thanks. Will probably use the truck scale method. Good link Jay. Scale about 20 miles down I-75 from me. Spent a good part of yesterday calling trailer companies. Smoke, you are very correct, expensive "new". Like car dealers some of them are packed full misquoting law, etc to sell you things you don't need. So the cheapest (new) found so far is a 10K, aluminum tandem axle 6 lug (one axle with brakes), all SS hardware, LED lights for $3795 out the door. Used trailers are a wash so far but still looking. Have been advised "surge" are preferred to "electric" brakes. Didn't put that question to any of the dealers. My 5th wheel has "electric" but it doesn't go in the water either (intentionally). I have no experience with "surge" brakes. Wondering about pulling the boat home ( if I buy it). Understand the trailer bunks needs to be set up to match the boat hull. Not really possible before hand as the boat is in the water. I suppose I could pull it out, look, put it back in the water, adjust the bunks, pull it out and look again. Unfortunately I am not up on bunk to hull placement. In fact, have never done it. Smoke, read some of your thread on your '89 Wellcraft. If I recall correctly you pulled it home 1200 miles before adjusting the bunks.

 

[smokeonthewater]

My bunks didnt really need adjusted... I did have to shorten a couple of them but wasn't a big deal....

If you can have the boat pulled and put on stands over your trailer you can adjust easily.

I VERY VERY VERY much prefer electric to surge...

I have regular dexter electric drum brakes on my trailer and have no issues at all... I do not have salt water to deal with...
If in salt I'd want electric over hydraulic discs

 

[BillP]

Friz,

A couple of my thoughts. I'm in florida and I take my trailers to a local moving and storage company for weighing. They have certified scales...which means you can take their certification and change the documented weight at the tag office...it may save you money on registration cost because they charge by weight and use whatever the trailer mfg says. There are actually a lot of used trailers here for sale at cheap prices but you have to do some searching and traveling to south florida. Modifying used trailers can get expensive real fast so take that that into consideration. On used trailers always check the mfg of the tires...they may look good but may be over 5-6 yrs and need replacement. Whether you want to continue to use them is a personal choice but $800+ in new tires is a good negotiating tool to bring the trailer price down.

I respectfully disagree about the boat transom having to be lined up on the last trailer brace. I've been doing it otherwise for decades without a problem..look around at how many big boats (30'-40') with multiple I/O & OB motors are sitting on the trailer with 1'-2' of overhang past the aft trailer brace. Most are and substantial bunks extend back to take the load but the keel is supported on the last brace. This is normal and you don't see damage or problems. I prefer to have the hull behind the brace so the engines don't hit the trailer when pulling up to the trailer. I tilt them after being pulled out, not before. The reason I mentioned that is it gives you some fore/aft wiggle room to adjust your boat on any trailer...which is way easier than moving the axles. Some trailers have interference limits (without major work) to how far you can move axles so be aware of that too.

The largest I've trailered is a lightweight 32' sailboat on a triipple axle trailer x-country...950lb (10%) tongue weight. Currently trailer 4 boats between 15' & 20'.

Good luck.
bp

 

[FrizFreleng]

Well, as it turned out there are plenty of large used trailers available here in Florida on Craig's List but as Smoekonthewater said not cheap. The average boat/trailer seems to get bigger the further south one goes. Found a trailer in St. Pete. Have invested a little less than $500 (after purchase) bringing it back to life. Hope to road test it next week by taking it to Nashville to retrieve the bucket of bolts I just bought.
BillP "The reason I mentioned that is it gives you some fore/aft wiggle room to adjust your boat on any trailer...which is way easier than moving the axles." Not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about moving the winch stanchion? Moving the stanchion would affect tongue weight, I would think. Maybe not so much on a tandem axle?

 

[wahlejim]

Bill is referring to the balance of the boat on the trailer in relation to your tongue weight. You want the boat to ride with the correct weight distribution. Too much weight behind the axles, the tongue lifts up and the boat fishtails on you. Too much weight in front of the axles, you overload your hitch. There are two ways to adjust the weight distribution. Move the boat, or move the axles. It is easier to move the boat than the axles and longer bunks past the last brace in the trailers allow you to move the boat back.

Looking through the threads on here, you will find a lot of debate about extended bunks. My personal opinion is it is fine for sterndrives but not good for outboards with the extra weight hanging off the transom.