Looking for tips on first PWC...

[cfauvel]

In the mood for a couple of PWC, and need some advice on what to look for...

I am very handy with motors (4 cycle and 2 cycle on classic cars and outboards), but never worked on a PWC...I've been looking at 1997 year range Yamaha Waverunner 1100 and 760 2 stroke carbed...mainly because I like the ease of carbs and low repair costs (no computer and fuel injectors) and the price point.

I don't need it to go super fast...just nice entry level PWC..

Thoughts?

 

[alldodge]

Only 4 stroke and non-supercharged, after that pick your brand

 

[QBhoy]

You won't go too far wrong with an old Yamaha 2 stroke. Give her a top end rebuild every 100hrs and either maintain the oil lines or pre mix...and you are good to go.
Not long bought a wee yamaha GP800r cheap. Gave her a top end rebuild. Really rewarding wee thing to work on and really well engineered.
I understand the scary bit about 2 strokes of you aren't mechanically inclined....but if you are, then it shouldn't worry you. So simple, powerful and rewarding.

 

[alldodge]

I understand the scary bit about 2 strokes of you aren't mechanically inclined

OK, I'll take that as not a slap LOL, but really?

Agree 2 stroke can be had cheap and they need to have plugs replaced every year and a bit of other maintenance, but a 4 stroke is, change the oil once a year and drive it. Nothing else needed except a fuel filter every once in a while

 

[QBhoy]

Haha. Not aimed at you at all AD. I served as a merchant navy marine engineer officer for 20 years and these old 2 strokes scared me with their associated horror stories.
Got one cheap enough to take a chance on it. Really found it so easy and simple to work on.
I suppose it's a balance between cost and mechanical involvement. Now I know they aren't that bad at all (yamaha at least)....I'm ok with spending a few hundred pound or dollars every 100 hours.
Can totally get the 4 stroke argument too...just they are expensive and heavy and the older versions aren't without their gremlins. From what I know, the non supercharged yamaha MR1 engines are the best of these....but still pricey.
Love the power the wee 2 strokes give and if treated right, should be worth a thought, depending on budget.
The attraction of my wee thing is that it cost me next to nothing, not scared of beaching it or taking it to bits and can be towed behind the boat pretty easy.

 

[cfauvel]

what would a top end rebuild be on the 2 stroke yamaha? Cylinder sleeve and rings? The head is just a combustion chamber unlike a 4 stroke with valves....the reed valve cage is behind the carbs right?

 

[QBhoy]

If you catch it in time or do it routinely, just new sized pistons (or rings if lucky and in tolerance), a diamond hone of the cylinders and clean and inspect the head and power valves. Advice is to fit clips on power valves or skim slightly. They are known to break or move and make contact with the pistons.
In the US, the price of the parts are tiny. Think about $70 each for pistons and rings and about $40 for top end gasket kit with all you need...exhausts, carbs etc.

 

[cfauvel]

are you guys saying that I need to bore out the cylinders .030 every year?...

 

[alldodge]

are you guys saying that I need to bore out the cylinders .030 every year?...

No, only reason to bore .030 is IF the motor needs rebuild. Normal work every year on the 2 cycle motor is replace plugs, clean rav valves, refill oil tinjection tank, drain or run carbs out of fuel for winter.

Had a 2000 seadoo with 85 hp and it was real fun machine. Could spin in and cause it to dive under the water. Ride was rough with a small chop and top speed about 50 mph. Currently have a 2007 seadoo with 155 hp. Can not spin it, ride is smooth even in small shop and top speed is about 55 mph. The 2 stroke is lighter then the 4 and this is why WOT is about the same.

 

[cfauvel]

ok so what years should I be looking for? I liked the look of the 1997 waverunner, but seems to be dated...looking at the 2001 yamaha waverunner 800xl...seems to be carbed even to 2001....is that too big?...sits three.

 

[mr 88]

No its not too big and if it sits 3 that translates to 2 comfortably . A carbed 2 stroke is the cheapest easiest way to go. What no one has mentioned in cost is what a 4 stroke cost to rebuild,the electronics that are involved in them $$ and the initial price. NO, they don't last forever ,what 4 stroke does ,especially one turning out 8-10 revs. A 2 banger is a set of pistons,rings and a head gasket every 100-150 hours. No reason to bore anything out unless it grenades before you do a top end.The reason for that is you could go 400-hours and up,but once the ring or skirt on the piston lets go,it becomes expensive. I agree that a Yamaha is the most dependable unit out there and parts are cheap enough,either on here or the web box store sites.

 

[QBhoy]

Yamaha GP800R be perfect. Hard to come buy these days because they are sought after now.
100 hours for top end rebuild is suggested as preventative. Not nearly as scary as it sounds. Should have said or made clear before. Just new rings, pistons (worst case) and gasket set. Once familiar can do this in a couple of hours. Shouldn?t need much more or pistons if you do this. All measured by tolerances and spec. Really rewarding wee things to work on. Yamaha 800 unit also good for many hundreds of hours before bottom end needs attention.
4 strokes are great, but unless it?s a Yamaha, mega money to fix and 3/4 times the price at least of a 2 stroke.
Sure you can get a reliable 4 stroke Yamaha non supercharged for decent money, but heavy and no where near as rewarding as a wee light weight 2 stroke.
Depends on your needs I suppose.

 

[mr 88]

Having raced MX with 2 stroke [ Yamahas ] for 15 years it was obvious the pistons also wore out at close to the same rate as the rings. They inevitably hit the cylinder walls. So they were always changed together. The 125 cc was about every 15- 20 hours of riding and you could feel the difference coming out of a deep corner.Not worth it to cheap out on not buying the pistons and the skirts on them do come apart and take out the cylinder.

 

[QBhoy]

Jeez. That isn?t long at all. Must be pushing hard. The super jets and blasters around here get ragged constantly and still last 100 hours.

 

[JimS123]

I love to build things. I love to putter around. Always need a Winter project. Heck, I have 68 outboards that keep me busy. But, they are my toys, and only a few are "daily drivers", 2 of which are 4-strokes.

PWCs are a different story. They are usually run hard and put away wet. Maintenance.....pffffft.....what's that? You have to decide whether you want a project, and have time to fix it over and over again, or do you want to ride the silly thing.

Buy a 4-stroke. If you don't want to putter too much, make it a Yamaha.

We've had 5 different PWCs over the past 25 years.. The first 4 were SeaDoos.....2 and 4-strokes. We currently have a Yami. That's what I'd buy again...

 

[cfauvel]

I like to putter and like projects like this so doing the top end rebuilds that I've seen for the yamahas wouldn't phase me....I think I want to stay with carbed units for the time being....injectors, superchargers and computers tend to get expensive and harder to work on.

I did see some SeaDoos that appealed to me....but stay away from them?

My range seems to be from 1995 - 2004 or so ...as long as they are carbed.

currently helping my brother in law with his 2001 suzuki quadmaster ATVs...I cannot believe the price of the parts...insane ...they want $350 for a single front drive shaft!!

 

[QBhoy]

Agree with above. Honestly now...rebuilding that wee 800cc Yamaha was actually a pleasure. Really rewarding and so well engineered. Reckon I could do it again in a couple of hours, having practiced.
The stand up ski guys don?t even think twice about rebuilding often.
Wee Yamaha 2 strokes are great. So simple. So powerful and such a hoot. There is a reason there are still loads still about.
Stay away from the GP1200r model. Nightmare engines and a known weak point of the old smoker Yamaha Range. That?s why trey didn?t make many.
Older GP1200 are great. Just not the ?R? engine.
1300r skis are real monsters that would embarrass some of the super charged 4 strokes....but by god they go through fuel and oil.
The 800 engine found in the XL, XLT, GP800 and GP800r is the best of them in my opinion. 760 a great engine too.

 

[JimS123]

I like to putter and like projects like this so doing the top end rebuilds that I've seen for the yamahas wouldn't phase me....I think I want to stay with carbed units for the time being....injectors, superchargers and computers tend to get expensive and harder to work on.

I did see some SeaDoos that appealed to me....but stay away from them?

If you can schedule your rebuilds for Winter that could be a fun hobby. But when they break down every other time you want to ride them, that gets old.

I would personally stay away from superchargers because they can be problematic. But, the thing about injectors and computers, in my experience, is that they are more bulletproof and don't need to be fixed that often.

I see lots of older Yamis that are still running. Most older Doos have been rebuilt. Stay away from the Doo 951 engine because they like to grenade.

 

[QBhoy]

Agree with the seadoo 951 advice.
The old Yamahas are bullit proof. Well looked after and keep on top them and they are great. Sure, they need the odd rebuild, but it?s part and parcel for any high output smoker. Not nearly as daunting as you would imagine. Novice level mechanics and brings man and machine all the more closer, haha.
Something goes wrong with the big 4 strokes...you?ll know all about it !

 

[cfauvel]

what about 2002 Polaris Virage....would those be 2 stroke or 4 ? thoughts on the motor? Or should I just stick to Yamaha