95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

[acmetim]

just bought a new prop. checked with the dealer, and i definitely got the right prop and hub as recommended by mercury. its a good fit on the shaft, but has fore and aft play along the shaft, about 1/8". dealer told me this was acceptable amount. it seems too sloppy to me. it seems like a washer on the shaft in front of the whole assembly would fix the problem, but i was warned that that would definitely cause problems.... any input?
tim

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

That much movement in the prop shaft is completely normal.... ANY sideways movement is not....

Chris.....

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

good to know. puts my mind at ease. looking at it this morning- the amount of play is equal to the space that exists between the hub and the washers on either side(duh) seems like if the hub were just a little longer it would be fine. thanks chris
tim

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Don't put anything on the shaft that would have it running on the back of the housing. The design is that the forward thrust created by the prop is taken by the bearing at the FRONT of the gear housing (forward gear bearing). When in reverse the thrust it taken by the reverse gear bearing. The movement of the shaft is as the load transfers between each of those bearings.

Chris.......

 

[carholme]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Tim;

You haven't provided your engine s/n but if it is a '95 60 hp, here is what the buildup should look like:

Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. - GEAR HOUSING (PROPELLER SHAFT) - 50/55/60 HP JET 45

And if you are sure that item 58 is installed, you should be OK.

Gerry

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Yes, proper thrust washer is on there. Thanks guys. One last clarification. The play is not the shaft moving front to back(it does a little) but the prop on the shaft.

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

# 0g193590

 

[carholme]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

There should not be any play with the prop mounted on the shaft. There will be a slight amount of prop shaft movement but the prop should not move on the shaft itself.

Your s/n comes up as:


MERCURY - ( 60 H.P. (1995 ))
Serial No: 0G193590 Model No: 1060412RT

Parts list for model 1060412RT:

50/55/60 HP JET 45 - Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. Parts Lookup

If you would like a copy of the service manual for your engine, PM me with an email address and I will send a copy.

Gerry

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

The prop shaft movement is caused by the F gear "overrun clutch" in the lower unit. When decelerating, the prop continues to turn in the water as a screw would turn in a substance. The engine rpms may return to idle while the prop is still spinning at who knows what rpm but certainly higher than idle. Were it not for the OR clutch, the minute you cut the throttle, the prop would attempt to stop in the water and the result would be a tremendous brake and you might find your teeth embedded in the windshield...if you had one.

The clutch is like the teeth on a hand saw made for cutting wood. As the clutch dog slides over the grooves in the rear of the F gear casting, they rise and fall just as your finger would rise and fall if running over the blade of said saw. This causes a slight movement of the prop shaft back and forth with respect to the housing in F gear when you rotate the prop cw from the rear with the engine off.

If in doubt, go by a dealer and put a new engine in F and rotate the prop CW. Or, just grasp a prop and push it in and release it to give you an idea of the movement in a new engine.

HTH,
Mark

 

[carholme]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Just to add to my previous post.

From 6A-27 of the manual:

! CAUTION
Do not misinterpret propeller shaft movement for propeller
movement, propeller and propeller shaft however
may move fore-and-aft. However, the propeller itself
should not move fore-and-aft on the propeller shaft.

Gerry

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Just to add to my previous post.

From 6A-27 of the manual:

! CAUTION

.......................may move fore-and-aft.
Gerry

Obviously a green gilled duck wrote this sentence in the manual. Not everyone who writes manuals are adapt mechanically. Some are green gilled fresh grads with their first work assignment. I wrote tech manuals before. I know what I am talking about. It HAS TO move due to the design of the clutch! And again we are talking about the prop shaft with respect to the lower unit casting, not the prop on the shaft!

Mark

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

o.k. great info here, but i am still left with what to do now. with the merc recommended prop and hub i have about 1/8" of movement fore and aft of the prop on the shaft. the shaft itself moves as it should. is there a way to shim that space with washers or spacers that will not negatively affect the operation?

 

[carholme]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Tim;

You did not include your email address in your PM.

Gerry

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

just got off the phone with mercury. took some doing to find that #, but got news... apparently the design of the new flo-torq hubs allow for up to 1/4" movement fore and aft on the shaft. they say that is normal and a part of the design of the hub. supposed to ratchet when decelerating to make rapid deceleration easier on passengers. i dont understand how it is supposed to ratchet without stripping the gears, but i will just assume merc knows more than i do about their product. we shall see.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

just got off the phone with mercury. took some doing to find that #, but got news... apparently the design of the new flo-torq hubs allow for up to 1/4" movement fore and aft on the shaft. they say that is normal and a part of the design of the hub. supposed to ratchet when decelerating to make rapid deceleration easier on passengers. i dont understand how it is supposed to ratchet without stripping the gears, but i will just assume merc knows more than i do about their product. we shall see.

You do not want the prop moving on the shaft. Some of the newer hubs require their own thrust washer to get the spacing correct. Mercury specifies 55 ft lbs of torque on my prop nut and doesn't mention the type of hub. 55 ft lbs means the prop does not move on the shaft. If you buy a prop from iboats, they show you what accessories you will need to use the prop selected and when using a removable hub type prop usually a different thrust washer is part of it. When you have the prop torqued correctly, the prop nut will be tight on the hub and there will be one to about 3 threads sticking out behind the nut.

The "upposed to ratchet when decelerating to make rapid deceleration easier on passengers." is the overrun clutch I was talking about and as I said, that is the prop shaft with respect to the lower unit, not the prop with respect to the shaft! The Over run clutch and mating F gear are made of case hardened steel. It's so hard you can't machine it without removing the temper from it. The spline in the hub of the prop is brass. Wouldn't take long for you to wear the prop or thrust washer (bronze) out with any slop besides the banging occurring when shifting.

Mark

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

nut is torqued until the plastic prop wrench stripped. that connection is at least 55 ft lbs. i am gonna go with the advice from merc, no offense. i am sure you are well versed in boats, but we went throught my engines serial number and all the parts numbers of the prop and hub and they assured me that the new hubs are designed that way. i even called twice to get the same info from a second operator. if they are wrong it will be on them. they say the two piece hub is made to ratchet down on deceleration. have you used a new flow torq hub?

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

nut is torqued until the plastic prop wrench stripped. that connection is at least 55 ft lbs. i am gonna go with the advice from merc, no offense. i am sure you are well versed in boats, but we went throught my engines serial number and all the parts numbers of the prop and hub and they assured me that the new hubs are designed that way. i even called twice to get the same info from a second operator. if they are wrong it will be on them. they say the two piece hub is made to ratchet down on deceleration. have you used a new flow torq hub?

Yes. I have a Turning Point Hustler. I guarantee you the hub does not turn in the prop and you are just getting BS from 2 guys reading the same instructions. Apply some common sense. There is NO MECHANISM for the hub to turn in the prop unless you stripped it out hitting something and then it wouldn't propel your boat. No mechanism means no way for it to happen. If it were, you could never back up as the prop would ratchet. The shaft would spin and the prop would just sit there and click. Pull the damn prop off and play with the shaft. You can see what you need to see about the overrun clutch without the prop even being on the shaft.

But it's your money, and your equipment.


Mark

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

thanks mark. you are very angry. this wont hurt you. just me. done be so hurt.

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Hi Tim(?)

The ratcheting referred to is in the gearcase, not the propeller hub. The hub assembly should be 'solid'. I have fitted many of the Flo-Torq II propellers, and I have never had any with movement between the hub and the shaft. If the right thrust washer is used, the thrust washer, the brass sleeve, and Delrin sleeve and the propeller itself become 'one' with the shaft.

A common misunderstanding (understandable by anyone who has not pulled a gearcase apart) is that shifting engages and disengages the gears. It doesn't. The gears are ALWAYS engaged/meshed. What shifting moves is the dog clutch. The dog clutch is splined on the forward part of the propeller shaft, and slides along the shaft to lock into its receiving area just inside the actual teeth of either froward gear or the reverse gear.

I have found a cut-away of a gearcase, You can see the clutch moving on the shaft. The ratcheting is because the 'backside' face of a Mercury clutch is ramped (unfortunately the back side of OMC clutches are NOT ramped, so no ratcheting), and in an 'overrun' condition the clutch can slide up the back and click over....

Have a look at this....

Chris.....

I also found a nice picture of a Mercury dog...

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

just got off the phone with mercury. took some doing to find that #, but got news... apparently the design of the new flo-torq hubs allow for up to 1/4" movement fore and aft on the shaft. they say that is normal and a part of the design of the hub. supposed to ratchet when decelerating to make rapid deceleration easier on passengers. i dont understand how it is supposed to ratchet without stripping the gears, but i will just assume merc knows more than i do about their product. we shall see.

I'm going to call Mercury out on this one.... There should not be any movement of the hub on the shaft.... EVER!!!

If you have movement, you may have the wrong thrust washer. What is the part number of the propeller on engine now? And that of the thrust washer? (I'm betting it's the wrong washer.... Seen that many times). It means the propeller outer hub is not coming hard up against the thrust washer (as it should)....

Chris........

(EDIT: Give me some time and I'll make a video of the Flo-torq II hub and propeller assembly and show what to look for...)