Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

[bear_69cuda]

Hey Gang,
I wanted to start yet another thread about 4 blade propellers. I?ve been reading in the prop forum regarding 3 to 4 blade conversion, and folk?s performance reviews between different prop manufactures.

Presently, I?m very impressed with the overall performance of my stainless 3 blade, with normal load (30-50 gal of fuel, gear myself and the sheriff) I get good hole-shot, mid and nice top end performance. My issues are when I have a heavy load 4-6 on-board, with all the gear and such, I?d like more of an improvement with hole-shot, mid-range, and rough water performance.
I've been looking at 5 props ( all 4-blade stainless ) listed below, in hopes that the advice and comments posted, will help me make my selection.

So I?ll start with my boats current data.

Boat: 2008 Hurricane 202 Deck Boat
Length: 20?
Beam: 102"
Hull: Modified V hull
SS Smart Tabs 60 lb actuators. (~ 100 rpm drop @ WOT when I installed tabs, all data below is with tabs.)
Weight wet: ~ 3500 lbs.
Weight with load: 4 adults, all gear ~ 4400 lbs.
Engine: 2008 Yamaha F150TXR 2.0:1 (28/14) gear ratio
Prop: Yamaha Reliance 14.25 x 17"P (non vented)

Yamaha Command Link digital Tachometer.
WOT-RPM?s: 58-5900 ~ 95% trimmed up. (If heavy load 56-5700) If the trim gauge is 100% correct, the prop seems to start ventilating and loosing speed after 95% trim up? My gut tells me the gauge/trim sender could be slightly off? Like 5%

Top speed: 42.5 mph GPS

Boat can stay on plane between 15-17 mph.

Anti-cavitation plate: See pictures below of my Hull. It seems to be ~ 1" or possibly 1.5" lower than the keel. My deck boats modified V hull doesn?t have much of a true V keel? Kinda flat (seen in pics)? It's also possible due to this design of hull, that the engine is mounted at the correct height, I'm just not sure... Nothing on Hurricane web-site or owners manual notes mounting height for this hull. My Yamaha factory service manual states "the anti-cavitation plate should be even with bottom of the boat" So should I move the engine up with 4 blade? Less resistance correct? Curious why the dealer rigged it this way???

These are the props I'm looking at. ( I believe 14.25" diameter is the largest the F150 can handle, please correct me if that's not the case... )

Stiletto Bay-Pro II and III
Solas HR Titan 4
Turbo Ultima 4
and PowerTech SkiMax (MQS4)

If I chose a 17"P 4-blade I should drop ~ 100 rpm = ~ 5700 rpm, Then if I subtract 2"P I'll gain ~ 3-400 rpm, so in theory a 14.25 x 15"P should put my F150 in the 58-6000 rpm @ WOT range. Now I get lost with the rpm effects of slip, cup, and rake.... I'm hoping the experts can help me...

Am I on the right path?

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Judging by the number you posted your current prop is excellent for average use. You are not going to get much better than what you have at 8.7% slip.

Now, a second prop for use when you have a heavy load is a great idea. I can only speak to the Solas HR Titan 4 blade as I have a lot of experience with that prop.

The HR Titan will improve your hole shot, provide better cruising speed/economy and control and allow you to raise you motor another 1 or 1.5 inches. I have the 15p Titan on my boat and I cannot make it vent at max trim. Compare that to my 3 blade TP Hustler which will vent above 80% trim.

The RPM numbers you quoted are only estimates. When you change prop design the 200RPM per inch of pitch rule is a guess at best. You can only reliably use that estimate when changing pitch in the exact same model of prop.

My recomendation would be to go with the HR Titan 4 blade in 16p. At the same time raise the motor up 1". You "should" see around 6k RPM full throttle, better hole shot and maybe 1 or 2 MPH slower at top speed.

Cheers

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

I just want to add to my above post that if you do not raise the motor then a 15p HR Titan would be a better choice. The reason being that raising the motor will increase your RPM at WOT.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Once you trim the motor so the AV plate is parallel it'll probably be close to even. With todays prop technology we can go higher than even, depending on what prop we run. As for why a dealer or boat company would rig it low is beacuse they don't really know or care about performance or because it's quick and "safe". Most dealers don't want to take a chance on a prop venting and feel more comfortable with the motor rather low.

You have listed some good prop choices. Now we have to determine if you are comfortable with raising the motor. That will determine which prop to get and how it will perform. If you are not comfortable with raising the motor and testing then we treat the motor like a sterndrive and work strickly with props. If you are OK with moving the motor the we have a lot more options.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Now the fun begins...

Thanks for the response guys... I went through 4 different props on my last boat before finding the best fit for my application. I understand real world with props in regards to estimates, is kinda like black magic! I do know for a fact my tach rpm data is spot on. my variance of 100 rpm at WOT is due to particular loads, and I never recorded or averaged my data, it's just what I've routinely seen...

As far as moving the engine, I have no issues with that at all, as long as it can be achieved with a normal engine (cherry picker) I see my engine has a lifting hook under the engine cover. So I assume this would be how I lift the engine.

Dhadley,

I was thinking if I trimmed up the engine the AV plate may be spot on. I wasn't sure what exact position to observe this. When I get home tonight I'll check it and use a ruler to measure it more accurately. If it is even does that mean I do not move the engine?

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

When we look at the motor height or X dimension we put the AV plate parallel to the keel or pad and measure. Then we test. As a very general rule of thumb a 4 blade will run at a higher X dimension than the same style 3 blade. Stainless props run higher than a comparable aluminum prop. The greater the technology, the higher it'll run. Very general rules, nothing is set in stone.

Then we look at hull design vs prop design vs set up and intended use. It is indeed magic to a certain degree but testing will tell which combo works best for you. And, yes a normal cherry picker will work just fine.

Question - what kind of steering do you have? If you have a push pull cable we need to make sure there is enough clearance for the motor to go up without causing too sharp of a bend in the cable. If it's hydraulic it's usually not an issue with the hoses.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

I checked my engine height with AV parallel to the bottom of my hull. It's exactly 3/4" lower, and one hole of adjustment on the Yamaha is ~ 1" on center the engine would be raised. So I'd be ~ 1/4" above boat bottom.

I have hydraulic steering, so should have no issues with change of X dimension.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Just for kicks, plug the vent holes in the Turbo 1 temporairly with silicone or putty and try it again. I love testing.......

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Turbo 1 ?

 

[90stingray]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

I changed from a stainless 3 blade to an aluminum 4 blade. The holeshot and pulling power were great. Plus improved planing time. Finally coughed up the cash for the 5 blade stainless and will never run anything else. Has amazing plane speeds and can hold plane at super slow speeds. Does everything advertised. Great prop for everything. But it is a lot of trial and error. Goodluck!

 

[2ndtry]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Finally coughed up the cash for the 5 blade stainless and will never run anything else.

Not to threadjack, but did the 5 blade affect the top end?

Bear: I have a hurricane as well, and I switch between a 3 blade stainless and 4 blade aluminum, I'll be looking for an update on what you think of the 4 blade SS. Both of mine are pretty banged up, it looks like you don't have to dodge stumps, there isn't a mark on yours!

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Cuda have the patience to follow dhadley...Hopefully when he is done your baypro will fall into your nitch... As to the rest...oh well.. Aka maybe someone is trying to balance the prop to that lifting pad you have there.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

10-4 Gunner,

Dhadley has me doing some testing this weekend, I trust he'll help dial in the best 4 blade for my application. We're working on some additional baseline numbers, before any big changes... I have a few weeks, maybe till the end of November before ice and cold may delay this data/prop collection and selection till spring..

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Today I'll be collecting data on my spare prop,

It's a Turbo I 14.25 x 19"P with vent holes.

Dhadley wants me to get numbers with this prop with and without vent holes plugged. After that data is recorded, I'm going to then try a friends used Turbo U4 14.25 x 21"P just to get baseline data. Then move into dialing correct pitch and determine if raising the Yamaha is necessary.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Hey Gang,

This is the data from today's test. See comments below each test.

Weather conditions:

Wind: 8-17 mph NNE
Water conditions: light chop
Air temp: 55
Note: I think my non-deployed Bimini was causing some extra drag due to higher than average winds today.

Boat conditions: 500lbs gear/2 adults, +30 gal fuel.

Prop: Turbo-1, 3 blade 14.25 x 19"P (Vent holes open)

Results are the average of 3 runs.

max WOT rpms: 5400
max speed: 43.5 mph GPS
max Time to plane: 5.0 sec
max Trim level w/o venting: 95%

Comments: Hole shot was sub-par compared to the stock 17"P Reliance prop. I can trim as fast as possible w/o the Reliance venting, It hooks-up very well, like glue! The T1 does not keep up with fast trim rate. It caused venting, loss of power, and acceleration. At cruising speed ~ 30 mph, the T1 seems sloppy even with gentle turns trimmed-up, the Reliance has better grip while cruising.

Prop: Turbo-1, 3 blade 14.25 x 19"P (Vent holes closed)

Results are the average of 3 runs.

max WOT rpms: 5400
max speed: 41 mph GPS
max Time to plane: 6.4
max Trim level w/o venting: 75%


Comments: Hole shot was lame, plugging the vent holes made it even less exciting, kind of a total drag. The T1 plugged up easily over-revved, and vented while trimming at WOT. It seemed even less stable at cruising speed, compared with the T1's unplugged test.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Hey Gang,

This is the data from today's test. See comments below each test.

Weather conditions:

Wind: 8-17 mph NNE
Water conditions: light chop
Air temp: 55
Note: I think my non-deployed Bimini was causing some extra drag due to higher than average winds today.

Boat conditions: 500lbs gear/2 adults, +30 gal fuel.

Prop: Turbo-1, 3 blade 14.25 x 19"P (Vent holes open)

Results are the average of 3 runs.

max WOT rpms: 5400
max speed: 43.5 mph GPS
max Time to plane: 5.0 sec
max Trim level w/o venting: 95%

Comments: Hole shot was sub-par compared to the stock 17"P Reliance prop. I can trim as fast as possible w/o the Reliance venting, It hooks-up very well, like glue! The T1 does not keep up with fast trim rate. It caused venting, loss of power, and acceleration. At cruising speed ~ 30 mph, the T1 seems sloppy even with gentle turns trimmed-up, the Reliance has better grip while cruising.

Prop: Turbo-1, 3 blade 14.25 x 19"P (Vent holes closed)

Results are the average of 3 runs.

max WOT rpms: 5400
max speed: 41 mph GPS
max Time to plane: 6.4
max Trim level w/o venting: 75%


Comments: Hole shot was lame, plugging the vent holes made it even less exciting, kind of a total drag. The T1 plugged up easily over-revved, and vented while trimming at WOT. It seemed even less stable at cruising speed, compared with the T1's unplugged test.

Sounds like your lifting the truth as to props and how they actually work...ummm and how the power band in you O/B works..Intresting is it not

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Very interesting data. The 19 T1 is (vented, stock) is 1 mph faster than the 17 at a slightly lower rpm which is to be expected. At this point the 17 would also be expected to have a faster holeshot. Remember, this is all testing at the slightly low X dimension which is OK since we're making one change at a time. We'll test at least one more prop at this X dimension and then move the motor and run all the props again.

I expected the plugged T1 to take longer to plane but the loss of positive trim wasn't expected. I'm not too worried about holeshot or top rpm at this point because we can compensate for that with X dimension. The loss of top speed goes with the loss of positive trim so we'll gain speed back as we gain the trim back.

Good feedback.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Hey gang,

I finally got to test the Turbo U4 14.25 x 19"p today.

The weather conditions were terrible, and a darn near froze my *** off

Temp: 39F Flipping cold on a boat wearing my stupid flip-flops! ( forgot my shoes and socks! )

Winds: SW 15-30 mph
Light drizzle.
Light chop. ( stayed close to SW shore to avoid caps/heavy chop )
Boat conditions: 500lbs gear/2 adults, +25 gal fuel.
Smart Tabs with 60 lb actuators.

Test with vent holes open.
Data is average of 5 runs.

Max time to plane: 5.8 sec
Max rpm @ WOT no trim: 4000
Max rpm @ WOT 100% trim: 4750
Max speed @ WOT 100% trim: 39.6

Comments: I will most definitely be getting a 4-blade... It handles like the boat is on rails! Turning at any speed is incredible compared to any 3 blade I've ever tried. The U4 stuck to the water like glue, the F150's top rpm @ WOT was only 4800 at 100% trim no ventilating at all! With the U4 my Yamaha still isn't even in the WOT power-band yet . The U4's hole shot wasn't that great, actually it seemed more than a bit slower getting on plane than my 17"p 3-blade, The U4 seemed to have some stern lift, or something that felt different in the way the Hurricane handled, than compared with any of the the 3 blade props tested. The U4 seemed to push the bow more flat when fully trimmed @ WOT... Maybe the hull now plains better/more efficiently than the 3-blade props? I'm not exactly sure how to describe it??

Test with vent holes plugged.
Data is average of 5 runs.

Max time to plane: 6.0 sec
Max rpm @ WOT no trim: 3900
Max rpm @ WOT 100% trim: 4800
Max speed @ WOT 100% trim: 39.6

Comments: Basically the same as the open vent test, just a tad slower hole shot.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Very common response..Fun... high response to practical boating applications. Boating is meant to be fun....Unless you running with 500 hp+ and 30 plus feet of lenght...gaming around at 35 to 50 is a blast...But then again there is something to be said for running @ 60 in a 3'chop and nailing it to 80...Truly a different leauge of boating...errrr thats total out speed racing....not to much fun after a few high speed runs...unless your with the boys....

Ill take the girls anytime...that is my wife and kids..

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Hurricane deck boat 3 to 4 blade stainless prop

Brutha Gunner,

So much fun, that I may see if my neighbor has his cherry picker at home, and try raising the F150 as Dhadley suggested. Then we can verify how much rpm is gained before changing the pitch variable. He said in PM that many folks don't realize with correct engine height, just how much rpm can be gained. I feel like I'm in prop Jedi training!

Now I'm praying that if I can get the motor raised today, that the snow and ice stays off the lake, and I have good weather next weekend. I need to winterize and store the Hurricane by next Monday at the latest. Fun time is running out