Lack of Information.-

[Sea Rider]

Owner swapped a OEM 13 pitch prop for same OEM 11 pitch one. As usual removed old prop, greased well shaft splines and inserted new prop. With nut adjusted tight, prop had a 0.5 mm lateral play. Went for a test at speed, not wot though, sea cond was wavy, windy. Some time after there was a unusual grinding like noise heard rear of OB. So headed to marina.

The prop while sitting on shaft had a excessive play. When prop was removed, there was damage found on rear prop lip and round shaft housing lips. Luckily prop hub nor oil seal were compromised.





When both were compared, the old one had a bronze insert spacer while the newer didn't. Although there was a 0.5 mm play, owner found too late that when prop spins it's pushed inwards hard, that accounts for damage to both mentioned parts seen in pics.

Scenario : The spacer will need to be ordered, when installed there will be a huge gap between shaft housing and rear prop body, if using the old prop should be around 10 mm gap, if going for a new prop about half. Question : As exhaust fumes will exit through gap lessening the total amount which should exit through middle prop, what's going to happen, will prop lose torque, hole shot, or better performance ?



It's seller's entire fault not specifying that a spacer was needed, nor a warning note inside plastic bag saying so. So will ask seller to send in a new prop. BTW 13 pitch prop was factory delivered with OB, was undergoing it's first prop maximization with awful results....

Not Happy Boating

 

[jimmbo]

So there was some sort of spacer, in addition to the thrust washer? And the owner never compared what was coming off to what was being installed? Kind of hard to blame the seller.

A new bearing carrier should solve any gearcase damage

 

[Sea Rider]

In reality it was a missing thrust washer, owner is a newbie unexperienced boater, this issue could have happen to anyone even me as there wasn't any loose washer working on old factory stock prop as to remove it from shaft and install it on new prop. Find it the most irresponsible way to ruin a new prop along prop housing. Factory should have let dealers know about the non existing hub fitted bronze washer on old stock props. Probably went with new prop manufacturer and forgot all about recommending users to install a thrust washer on new OEM props.

If you rely on a pro Company that sells lots of props and you been inquiring about maximizing props for a long time, seller should have warned that the new prop needed a thrust washer so to include it on the box, buy apart or whatever. Why do you have to be harmed for other's idiotic issues not stated at the correct purchase time. For me it's as simple as that... The issue is that both props were perfectly bolt adjusted on prop's shaft and spinning freely.

According to my mom, there's not worse diligence than the one not done. Let's see what happens.

Happy Boating

 

[jimmbo]

That mistake is made by even experienced boaters. A few, or not so few dollars and it can be fixed. But a lot of people, when it comes to making a mistake that costs money, always try to blame someone else. If a car owner, goes and incorrectly installs a spare tire backwards on the car, and it damages the wheel, the studs, and even the inner fender, would you say its the manufacturers fault or car dealers fault?

 

[strokendiesel002]

This is a tough one. Being in sales, I do my best to inform my customers of auxiliary items that are required to get the most out of whatever it is that they're buying. Some pretend to listen, some listen and some flat out stop me, stating that they know the sales game/ if it's required, it should be in the box. Let's use an impact gun. They don't come with the quick disconnect for an air line, as there are countless styles, and we'd either have to increase the cost of the impact gun to include all f the connectors, or create a different part number/ each with a fitting, making inventory a night mare. "Well yes, I do have the impact gun right here, but, it's got the wrong connector- response? Just knock a few bucks off keep the connector and I'll take it". So I wind up trying to sell a bunch of small adapters and altering my inventory instead of taking care of the other customers or spending time with my family. Alternatively, "i already have a box of connectors, why should I pay for a new one?"

More practically, did the owner physically bring the prop that was being​ replaced in to reference what style they'd need as a replacement? If not, and it's not noted in the computer or book that "this prop may fit drive units whose original props had permanent thrust washer attached to hub, will likely need to add part number xxx12234" can we really blame the kid getting $8/hr standing at the counter?

Finally, how many of us just call a place asking "is xyz in stock and if so, how much? Well I can get it here fr $x what's your best price?"

That attitude will shut down often even the most caring of sellers, as that's a signal that you don't have someone looking to build a relationship/ they consider the most important factor in a purchase as the dollars they're handing over, rather than what they're receiving.

Reality? It sucks that this happened. I may have very well done this one day if I hadn't taken the time to respond to it, hopefully burning this possibility into my memory bank, as I have a close family friend who was an avid boater for many years, owning several high hp I/O's and he told me a while back about a time he whacked a log and broke a prop. No prob, throw on the spare. Forgot/ lost the thrust washer during the swap a toasted his drive.

Come to think of it, is there a sticky anywhere that emphasizes the importance of the thrust washer?

What engines came with a hubmounted washer? Is this more common than I am familiar?

 

[jimmbo]

Mercury has used thrust washers since at least the early 60s, Evinrude and Johnson started in 1968 when they introduced the Hydro-electric gearcase with a splined propshaft. OMC I/O in about 77 or 78. I can't comment on Chrysler/Force or any of the offshore engines

 

[strokendiesel002]

Thanks Jimmbo! That's great info! oldest I'm familiar with is a '79 Mariner(Merc for all intensive purposes).

 

[Sea Rider]

That mistake is made by even experienced boaters. A few, or not so few dollars and it can be fixed. But a lot of people, when it comes to making a mistake that costs money, always try to blame someone else. If a car owner, goes and incorrectly installs a spare tire backwards on the car, and it damages the wheel, the studs, and even the inner fender, would you say its the manufacturers fault or car dealers fault?

Sorry Jimmbo, but were talking about OB props. The prop was not installed backwards so the car tire example is completely out of the question. But if you install a car battery backwards, turn ignition key ON and screw your car CPU, that's another very bad sad story..

Let see if other boaters have something to say about this case, that's if i'm right having a claim due to being the importer or nothing to claim the seller.

And the mistake for not providing correct purchase information is solely responsible of seller not owner. If you see a spare washer while removing old prop you must install it on new one, if there isn't one, you could easily assume nothing else is needed, don't have to be a genius to discern that.

Happy Boating

 

[Sea Rider]

Strokendiessel,

Very good points, as stated both are Tohatsu 30 HP OEM props, same diam, the only difference is the pitch. Why would a factory stock 13 pitch have a fitted thrust spacer and the new 11 none. If so, factory must instruct dealers to provide a proper thrust washer to customers and dealer specify same to customers, doesn't matter if boaters are new of with huge boating experience. Lack of correct information, warning notes can screw just about anything...

Prop claim is going on thuesday....fingers crossed.

Happy Boating

 

[jimmbo]

I used the tire as an example of a owner not installing something correctly, or reading an owners manual on how to install something.
As for the factory prop, it and the thrust washer are installed on the engine, and the washer would be used with other props the owner/dealer would install. If a different brand of prop were to used, a different thrust washer may be needed, as in Turning Point, Solas, Mercury props on other brands of motors, but in the those cases, the props wouldn't even fit until the hub kits were used.
In the end it is the owners fault

 

[jimmbo]

Thanks Jimmbo! That's great info! oldest I'm familiar with is a '79 Mariner(Merc for all intensive purposes).

In the late 70s Mercury made some big changes to their propeller designs. In addition to switching to progressive pitches, increased rake and supping as standard features, they also changed the design of the thrust washers and propnut securing systems.
http://www.boatinfo.no/lib/bulletins.html#mercury-service-1977_14

 

[Sea Rider]

Defiitely we're not on same page. It's "Same Toahstsu OEM Props" for both 13 & 11 pitch props. It's a swap one for the other. What mentioned above is irrelevant. does not contribute illustrating a bit what posted, it's a different scenario.

Happy Boating

 

[strokendiesel002]

Sea, I somehow completely missed the part where you stated the make. I'm embarrassed. Taking into account that both are OEM, likely bought from an OEM dealer, I'd be pretty hot if I were the buyer. Good on you for looking out for the customer!

 

[ondarvr]

Is the spacer and thrust washer removable from the original prop?

Is it just a light pressed in fit, or is a permanent feature of the prop?

 

[ahicks]

First, clearly the back side of those hubs don't match up. That should have a red flag up right there. Second is the lateral play they DID notice. Another red flag!

Regarding the required spacer, most of us have enough experience with other brand outboards and I/O's where we'd be looking for one, even if THIS design doesn't call for one, or there was none found on disassembly. If there wasn't one found on disassembly, that would be a 3rd red flag. A flag that would have had this do it your selfer checking into things a bit deeper.

No choice but to wonder if the correct prop replacement part number is in play, and if that's correct, is there no note regarding the spacer or superseded part number in effect? If not, bad on them. I'd say they owe you a prop at minimum.

 

[Sea Rider]

Sea, I somehow completely missed the part where you stated the make. I'm embarrassed. Taking into account that both are OEM, likely bought from an OEM dealer, I'd be pretty hot if I were the buyer. Good on you for looking out for the customer!

The issue is that both props were ordered & bought from Tohatsu Japan factory, were delivered with some other spare parts down here. So factory misinformed Tohatsu dealer, Tohatsu dealer misinformed me and customer ended screwing prop and shaft housing . A chain of stupid misinformation one after the other..

Ondarv.
Boater being realtively new just swapped old for new and voil?, probably would have done same if no spacer, thrust washer was found on prop shaft. It's a fixed bronce washer, anyway owner wanted to have the 13 pitch as a spare. T

Too late to cry over spilled milk, the damage has already been done, the only thing left is satisfy customer with a new prop and washer. I believe deeply in customer plain satisfaction...

Bottomline, seller should have specified that new 11 prop needed a spacer, which seems he didn't know all about. Washer would have been order along prop. Seller seems is a shade tree seller...

Happy Boating

 

[Fed]

Surely the old thrust washer would fit the new prop, customer error in my book.
Aside from that comparing the props should have rung alarm bells along with the 0.5 mm play, every OB I've ever owned has had more like 5 mm play.

 

[Sea Rider]

You guys are trying to find 3 feet to the cat with pure speculations that aren't so.

Blame boater being the sole responsible for the damage due to your boating experience changing props, thrust washers, newby boaters only know that must add fuel, oil and out they go. Boating is a short or long learning curve, nobody is born with boating squills.

A well documented claim has already been forwarded to seller, if he assumes his fault for his lack of correct information during purchase, should provide a new prop. Now seller, buyer and me know that a washer is required on new OEM props. Let's see what happens. Hope is the last thing lost..

Happy Boating

 

[Sea Rider]

Update :

After a long claim very well documented, shop owner will send a new prop soon. He apologizes that the misinformation fault was entirely the shop's employee. He knew already that a spare thrust washer was needed on newer OEM props, as he had previously sold same props to other customers along washer. He simply forgot to mention it on my order.. When washer arrives will firstly test damaged prop as it is to see what happens. Will it better hole shot, performance, who knows.

Happy Boating