Bought some toons, want to swap motors, its gonna be good times!

[snowseeker]

I got noise out of both buzzers so I left the two wire in. Seems to work to because I was getting a beep every minute or so for the low oil in the tank.

Ran the motor on the muffs. Then took it on the water for a couple hours. Should I be seeing water out of the upper exhaust port when it is warm? It never over heated but I also never seen much water run out of the exhaust port even after a decent wot run. I did see a tiny tiny bit come out but nothing like I expected. Never was any steam either. I was also only getting a slight dribble out of the water line but the tip was plugged up. When I got home I pulled the lower unit suspecting a bad pump but all is good. I blew air up the water pipe and felt it coming out threw the lower exhaust and the rubber hose on the side of the motor so I feel nothing is plugged up. Should I pull the thermostats to inspect them?


I also found fuel dripping out one of the lower carbs so I also pulled them when I got home and cleaned them all. Again no debris or tell tale of anything stuck in the float valve so thats odd. The carb the fuel was dripping out of did have the float set just a hair high but I feel not enough to over flow. I did reset it level with the bowl anyhow. The valve seat was also in good condition and seated well.

The motor ran well off idle and up to wot. At idle I was getting some coughing so when I get the carbs back on I am sure I will have to readjust them. Besides that I was happy with how it ran. It was surprisingly quiet and had good power. It is set a big high though as it would cavitate easily at higher speeds if I tried to trim it up some. I had my wife drive while I took a look over the back to see what I could see. It looked like the lower unit was well under water but it doesn't think so. Unfortunately I only have one hole to drop the motor so that better take care of it. Only other thing I noticed is the prop doesn't have that convergence ring on it, looks like it got knocked off at some point. Would that cause any of the cavitation issues?

 

[ahicks]

Seems like no matter how thorough you think you're being, SOMETHING nearly always shows up on the maiden run.

I'd be concerned about the peeing. Was it OK when on the muffs? Did you have a good look at the wear areas above and below the impeller, impeller top and bottom? That middle port on the lower unit should be most active with the boat in the water at rest - due to back pressure at the prop. Did you see any steam from there? Did the engine seem to be warming up? With the cold water this time of year, and t-stats not working properly to help warm the engine, it may have been cold - which could help lead to that lean/coughing condition.

Coughing on idle is very often a plugged idle jet too though. Those can be real buggers to get clean.

 

[snowseeker]

Yes it is cool out and the water even cooler. On the muffs I did get some water out the pee line but again just a little more than a dribble. I pulled the line off the fitting that passes threw the 'cowling?' and blew with my mouth threw the fitting and thought it was clear but obviously wasn't. There is a bigger 1/2" rubber line connected to that fitting as well but leads to nowhere. It just dangles next to the engine. I looked and looked and can't find a place for it to hook up to, I've even searched the internet for hours trying to see where it is supposed to go. On our work boats I eliminate that fitting that passes threw the cowling because it always gets plugged with sand from running the river, I would just pass the hose itself threw the cowling and never a problem with plugging again. I may do the same with this one if that bigger line has no real use.

The middle port on the lower unit was under water so I am unsure if it was letting water out or not. I will keep an eye on it now. I had to order a few things for the reassembly so it will be a few days before I can run it again.

Cold out or not I do know from our work boats that we use right up till freeze up that if there was no flow of water threw the engine it should have steamed and overheated as much as I drove it. We were on the water for 2 hours and I put well over a full hour of strait run time on it.

Its funny because the last pontoon I got the water pump wasn't working. When I pulled it out the rubber was completely melted and the rubber itself plugged the water pipe! I've never seen one so bad. haha I expected to see nearly the same thing when I pulled this one but it is darn near perfect. Upped plate, lower plate, round housing and all are in great condition. Even the rubber impeller itself doesn't appear to have any real wear on it (no flat flaps). I was shocked!

Over all though I am pleased with the motor. Any new to me motor I expect carb and water pump work so it was right on par with that. All my wiring seems to have went decent. Only thing that didn't work is the tach. It 0's when the key is turned to 'on' but doesn't move when the motor is started. I have to look into it more. I checked and a gray wire is running to the tach signal in. I assume that is right but have to read about it and where it comes from.

Oh and the volume on the radio doesn't work. lol

 

[snowseeker]

Fixed the tach, was my own fault, I had two wires (tach and trim) switched up by the console. I must have been tired or it was getting dark when I did that. :facepalm: I didn't actually start the motor because the carbs are off yet as well as the lower unit but I just turned it over with the starter enough to see the tach start to climb.

Even though now hooked up correctly :facepalm: the trim gauge still does not work. New one should be here within a day or two.

My fuel line zip ties should also be here within a day or two so I can get the carbs back on.

Anyone have any insight on where that big 'water pee line' is supposed to go? On my engine it just curls and leads to no where, dangling next tot he engine. Not a pic of my motor but to give a visual. It is that big line that comes strait up off the bulkhead fitting.

 

[snowseeker]

Got the carbs back on, ran the toon quick to swap trailer, gas leaking out the same lower carb. When I have time I will run it on the muffs and see if it leaks while running or just after I shut it off. It does not leak when pumping the bulb.

 

[ahicks]

Did you figure out where the pee line gooks up? On the twins they come from the factory with a nylon 90 degree fitting on the exhaust side, which melts pretty easily.

 

[snowseeker]

What I found is that bigger line is supposed to dangle towards the bottom of the cowling. Apparently it is a siphon in case any water gets inside the cowling it will suck it out. So I guess all that is good on mine.

I am going to pull the leaking carb again today and tear it down again and check for cracks and whatnot. I did read about the main jet loosening up and causing some leakage out the throat. I'll see if I can find anything.

 

[snowseeker]

After very close inspection of the leaking carb I found an ever so small divot in the hole right at the seat of the float valve. I threw the fitting in the lathe and drilled out the hole to the next size up and then used a seat reamer to freshen up the needle seat. It did make the carb less likely to leak but I do still get a slight dribble now and again from I believe the also compromised needle valve itself. So I will order in a carb kit to take care of that carb.

I spent a good hour on the water yesterday trying to adjust the carbs. I started with an initial setting of 2 full turns out on the idle screws which makes the motor cough nearly constantly. I adjusted and adjusted until I had basically every needle turned nearly all the way closed (full rich) to get the coughing to stop. I adjusted timing all over the place with no improvement. The motor does get warm (hard to hold your hand on it for more than a few seconds). At the adjustment where the coughing stops I do get a bit excessive smoke out of the motor, not real bad but more than I feel it should be. That does make sense as I have the needles at near full rich, but any less and it acts as it is too lean. It also seems every carb does this, if I back any needle out a half turn from nearly full rich I start to get a cough out of the motor. With all the carbs set to where the coughing is nearly totally eliminated I think the leanest carb setting is maybe 3/4 of a turn out from full seated.

I thought about the carb base seals right away as that would be a typical place to look years ago for a vacuum/air leak. But with these there is no throttle plate in them so I feel a slight leak in the base gasket wouldn't effect the air/fuel mixture? Am I right or wrong thinking that? Unless the leak was right at the passage where the air/fuel mixture passes threw to the throttle plate assembly deal? But the chances of every one of the carbs leaking right at that small point?

Besides at idle the motor runs perfectly. I have dealt with all kinds of different motors and carbs over my life but this one is getting to me.

Only other thing I can think of is some previous owner cranked on the needles and ruined their seats. Do the idle mixture needles seat on plastic or is there a metal fitting pressed into the carb? I didn't look closely at them, just took the needles out and cleaned the passages.

 

[ahicks]

Idle needles are metal on metal in my experience. Never seen anything any different on anything I've ever worked on. If considering a vacuum leak, one way to check is to spray some WD-40 around suspect areas with the engine running. Listen for a change in engine rpm....

I might have a tendency to let the weather warm a little before getting too concerned about your adjustments. MFG's have the engines set/calibrated really lean for emission purposes. Your outside air temp may be causing the engine to be running lean...

Best of luck getting that leaky carb right.

 

[snowseeker]

So yesterday one thing lead to another. There were some scratches on the motor cover which I was going to just sand down and shoot with a rattle can. Then out came the fiberglass resin because there was a gouge in the cover. Then I started sanding more, taping, and well the whole motor got painted base and clear. lol

Also in that last pic you can see why I believe I have some cavitation issues while trying to trim the motor up while on plane. The motor pod has quite an angle on it which I believe at speed pushes the water in a downward direction at the motor. So as I try to trim the motor up and the water is being pushed at an angle down at the motor allowing air past the cavitation plate and to the prop.

I think what I will try is cut out the rear 10" or so of the bottom of the engine pod and then weld in a strait section of plate. Maybe that will help straiten the flow off water off the pod before it gets to the engine.

 

[snowseeker]

I cut the lower part of the pod today and rewelded it. The rear 10" or so is now flat and about 1.5" higher. Hopefully that takes care of the caviation when I try to trim up the motor.

 

[snowseeker]

Ok, so I put new carb kits in, adjusted everything, still getting a couch at idle and stalls randomly. Last thing I got to check is reed valves. I am going to try pulling them tomorrow and checking for cracks, chips, and burns. many report a better idle with boyesen reeds. I may give them a try if I see anything funny with my stock reeds.

Cutting and raising the small rear section of the engine pod helps quite a bit with the cavitation! I am quite pleased but could still use a little more. I think if I drop the motor that one last hole it may be perfect.

I got a bunch of leds in. I want to install a few under the toon and then skin the bottom.

Seems I am getting about $0.50 per mile on fuel mileage. lol

 

[ahicks]

Tower of power likes it's fuel. Lot's of it! Suggest you adjust idle as rich as possible, richer than what you feel is optimal at least, and try that to see if you still have the random stalling. Do you have a vacuum gauge to check to see if the carbs are in balance?

Still picking at my project. Engine is mounted with re-sealed lower unit and fresh water pump as of this past weekend. New captains chair, one of those solid plastic white ones with arm rests, on a fully adjustable pedestal, done as well. Picking at the wiring as patience allows. I was able to use the switch panel and instrument cluster from the original boat in the new console - now requiring I figure how to convert it to use with a Honda. Slow going converting Honda wiring code to what I need.

 

[snowseeker]

I as well just finished up the wiring on my toon. It was quite a mess from people doing quick fixes over the years.

No tower of power on our toon any more. It is the 120hp johnson V4 looper now. I am going to keep poking at it till I get the couch figured out. I haven't been beat by a motor yet. Just frustrating.

It does run beautifully at anything above idle though! Smooth and good power. It is funny, I can feel the drag of the water hitting the bottom side of the toon. That will be my next project skinning the bottom side of the toon.

 

[ahicks]

I know that draggy feel you're talking about. Our engine pod has a flat bottom surface and some big spray rails I was blaming that on as it's only happens in waves. It's up and clear most of the time otherwise. It'll be interesting to see what the extra power and weight of the new engine affects it. I have considered skinning maybe the back half of the boat.

 

[snowseeker]

Weird, the forum shows there is a second page to this thread but when I click on it, it won't show.

 

[snowseeker]

Anyway, I don't see my last post. I pulled the reeds and found that I could see light threw 50% of the petals. Some had quite a gap. So I ordered up some Boyesens and will throw them in when they come in. Have plans for the wife and her friends to take the toon out this next weekend.

 

[snowseeker]

Not sure if I am impressed with the boyesens yet. Installing them I couldn't tighten down the retaining screws loose enough to keep the "lighter" reed from lifting. As it is now I just barely have the screws snugged up and am pretty much relying on the loctite to keep them in place just so the reeds are almost sealed. I can still see a slight sliver of light threw every single "light" reed. I kept the stock reeds just in case.

Also once I got the boyesens in they mention in the instructions that any coughing or backfiring may damage the reeds. So thats great when that is the exact problem I am trying to alleviate.

 

[ahicks]

Just remember the piston(s) coming down has a tendency to blow a slightly open reed closed. I generally don't mess with them unless they are physically damaged. I've seen engines idle near perfect at 6-700 rpm, with reeds that are open a good .030" or so. Lots say differently, have learned not to argue the point.

BTW, Mine has been maidened, minus most of the upholstery. Man, they really scoot when they're that light (27mph/6000rpm)! A couple of wiring issues (tilt guage and choke), and not sure but might have to replace some motor mounts. Engine vibration transferring through transom is creating some harmonics in the boat at a couple different rpm's.

 

[MH Hawker]

and their is a saying bout 2 strokes ( lean is mean and rich to run ) that more or less means, if the mixture is lean you get more performance and if to lean the motor frys, you all ways set the idle rich for easy starting, if its set right it will fire off in 2 or 3 keys bumps ever time for years