Anti submarine plate?

[Cat nip]

Has anyone ever tried to add a grass rake style device to the front of a toon to stop or reduce the dreaded submarine effect? I am wondering if somthing about 1.5 feet tall that is the full with of the boat and tipped forward about 45 degrees mite work? Any thoughts folks?

 

[jbcurt00]

I dont think I'd be out on a pontoon in conditions that warranted an 18in tall anti'submarine plate.

Or driving my 'toon into anything that made it necessary.......

But maybe I'm not understanding what you're suggesting.

 

[bruceb58]

Can you explain why this is an issue and what this device would do?

 

[Scott Danforth]

pontoons are for putting around with a drink in your hand or a fishing rod in your hand when the water is near glass smooth. they are not designed to pound into waves

 

[ahicks]

Now there is a creative mind at work. I think it would work fine, but like the others, from a practical standpoint I have to wonder if you aren't pushing the 'toon's capabilities a little. In conditions where having something like that installed might start working well, I'll be at the dock - or in a boat designed for that kind of play.

 

[GA_Boater]

What do you mean by "grass rake style device"? Tines?

 

[Cat nip]

Its not that I go out looking for waves that are a bit to high and spaced perfectly to dunk the bow but sometimes stuff happens on the river. My toon only has 21" logs and sits level even under way. Do new toons have the submarine issue when the play pen goes all the way to the front? I have 5 feet of open deck up front . The purpose of such a thing would be to act somewhat as a brake and add a bit of height to the bow to deflect water. I cant have a different boat for every condition, situation or mood until I win the lottery. I will try to get a picture of a grass rake to help visualize the idea.

 

[Cat nip]

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The grass rake is the extension on the bow. My thinking is that on a toon when said device hit water that it would help add lift and maby slow the boat down a bit if going a little faster than a put up till the top was overrun with water. I have dunked mine going upstream at closed throttle due to large wakes and a tail wind. This is the kind of situation I am trying to improve. Do t have $ for a 3rd log or a new boat. But what I do have is american ingenuity and tools and a strange need to improve things that others say dont need improving. If toons are only for drinking and driving while fishing at an extremely slow speed we would all have 8x10 rafts made out of 55 gallon drims with a 10 hp motor.

 

[GA_Boater]

How often do you plan on driving through a swamp? Airboats and pontoons are two different animals.

Grass in a swamp isn't hard like water, so your rake will need to be very sturdy.

 

[Cat nip]

I realize it would need to be both light weight and strong. And would also look funny and out of place. But if it could work then why not try it?

 

[jbcurt00]

If you want to add it, add it. If it helps keep ya dry and afloat, all the better I suppose.

It will make getting on and off the bow and down to shore much more difficult if ya beach it.

 

[ahicks]

My bet is you're right regarding the 21" 'toons. Most of the newer boats, especially those with forward play pens, are all on larger pontoons (23"-25"). Been a while since I had one of the older boats with 21" toons, but I do remember one big redeeming feature it had over the newer boats. They ride AWESOME in choppy water compared to the newer boats! Where the bigger toons are rattling/bouncing along on the water's surface on choppy days, the 21's ride a little deeper, with a noticeably better ride.

Just tossing an option to the rake plan - have you considered securing a big truck inner tube up under the front of the boat? Or a big block of foam? That would add all sorts of flotation if the front if the toons started to submarine, and act like a brake as well. You'd just have to figure out how to secure it, keeping it up out of the water in normal conditions. Maybe secure it with some netting?

 

[HotTommy]

Catnip, I wouldn't worry too much about your splash guard getting in the way when you beach the boat. It's all about how you do it and how much you are willing to spend. Here's some inspiration.

Oh, I have one more piece of advice in the form of an old saying. "For every problem there is a solution that is quick, easy, cheap and wrong." .... Adding weight to the front of a boat that already tends to submarine in an attempt to minimize submarineing may take a bit of time, money and engineering. Have you considered actions to shift weight farther aft so the nose would ride higher?

 

[Cat nip]

I have 2 group 27 batteries I will be moving to the stern. But that's only about 100 # my deck ice empty except for the captain chair, helm and co pilot seat. We sit pretty far forward and I like being able to see everything and if anyone else is on board they sit behind me. The only other option for weight transfer is to move the transom pod back. But since we sit just forward of the center of the logs I believe moving the transom back will only make the stern sit lower and not raise the bow.

 

[HotTommy]

Weight transfer alone may not be enough to solve your problem. But physics says that if the total weight is the same and the rear of the boat is sitting lower (and displacing more water), then the front of the boat must sit higher and displace less water.

 

[garbageguy]

Has anyone ever tried to add a grass rake style device to the front of a toon to stop or reduce the dreaded submarine effect? I am wondering if somthing about 1.5 feet tall that is the full with of the boat and tipped forward about 45 degrees mite work? Any thoughts folks?

I have never done it, but it's an interesting idea. How about lifting strakes - maybe only toward the front, and mounted higher than normal? Got pictures of your boat? Possibly marked-up to show what you propose?

 

[Cat nip]

Thanks hot tommy. The physics lesson is welcome, it pays to ask smarter people sometimes.
Garbage guy I will see if I can find a pic or 2 although I dont have the ability to Drayton my ideas on them.

 

[Cat nip]

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This is the only photo I can get to upload at this time sorry.

 

[Cat nip]

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[HotTommy]

One more small idea comes to mind. When in rough water, trim the motor so the propeller is pushing the wake more upward (as if tilting the motor up out of the water). If you can do this without cavitating, it will tend to push the stern down and raise the nose a little.

The lake where I usually boat is calm most of the time, so I haven't seen much submarine action. But I took my boat to a large bay two years ago and encountered some 2-3 foot swells and strong winds. I was going about 15 MPH trying to get out of the big waves as fast as I could when one broke over the front of the boat. I realized that I was going too fast for the boat to rise and fall with the waves. I had actually driven into the face of an oncoming wave before the front of the boat could rise to go over it. I slowed down to better match the pace of the waves and it didn't happen again until the next day when I forgot and did the same thing again.