Is it possible to install air valves to my logs?

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Buster_boy

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I want to get a bit more buoyancy on my boat. I thought if I could add valves I could do that.

Thanks
 

ondarvr

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Explain how you think it will work. I may not understand what you want to do.
 

ahicks

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What they are trying to tell you is the pressure in the logs are irrelevant when it comes to bouyancy (assuming they're waterproof). Buoyancy is about displacement - the size of your logs. Without changing the size or shape of the logs, buoyancy is going to remain the same regardless of internal pressure. Another brain teaser is the case where people try to increase buoyancy by filling the logs with foam - only to find the weight of the foam in the tubes has DECREASED buoyancy.
 

ahicks

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Another brain teaser. Will the logs have more buoyancy with higher pressure helium, vs. less?
 

gm280

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Pressure, or even a vacuum will not change the true buoyancy in the least with your toons. The toons are the buoyancy issue all by them selves. The area of displacement from the toons is all you get. If you fill them with water, they simple will add to the overall weight and therefore sit a lot lower in the water. But the same displacement still exists. So I would forego any change in your toons. You will not gain anything trying to fill them with pressurized air or even helium. Just not going to happen. If you need more buoyancy, add a third toon in the center of the pontoon boat. It is all simple phyisics. JMHO
 

Scott Danforth

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Agree above, no amount of pressure will change displacement or bouyancy. The only thing that makes sense is to put a schroeder valve on the 'toon log with a pressure gauge for leak detection. Pressurize to 2-3psi (5 psi gauge). If the gauge eventually reads 0, you have a leak
 

ondarvr

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Pressure does change the buoyancy, the higher the pressure the less buoyant the pontoon will be, a vacuum would allow maximum buoyancy. The more air (any gas) you cram into the pontoon the more it will weigh.

Purging the air and filling them with helium will increase buoyancy, only because helium is lighter.
 

gm280

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Pressure does change the buoyancy, the higher the pressure the less buoyant the pontoon will be, a vacuum would allow maximum buoyancy. The more air (any gas) you cram into the pontoon the more it will weigh.

Purging the air and filling them with helium will increase buoyancy, only because helium is lighter.

ondarv.n, Technically you are correct, but realistically, not so much. The actual change in how deep the pontoons would sit in the water wouldn't change any appreciable amount either way. While you are technically correct, it seriously wouldn't be worth the cost or effort to fill them with helium. If you really want to get that technical, the ambient temperature can change their buoyancy from day to day as well. But not to any amount that would be noticeable. So in general terms, it doesn't matter. If he wants more floatation, add another toon. JMHO
 

ondarvr

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ondarv.n, Technically you are correct, but realistically, not so much. The actual change in how deep the pontoons would sit in the water wouldn't change any appreciable amount either way. While you are technically correct, it seriously wouldn't be worth the cost or effort to fill them with helium. If you really want to get that technical, the ambient temperature can change their buoyancy from day to day as well. But not to any amount that would be noticeable. So in general terms, it doesn't matter. If he wants more floatation, add another toon. JMHO



Yes, but it was a technical question, and should be answered accurately.

Depending how much you pressurize a container you can increase the weight (buoyancy) significantly. Not that a pontoon could hold that much pressure, but people read these threads and can come up with all sorts of odd assumptions when we give lazy answers.
 

ahicks

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So the decision must be made, are we to answer the question from a technical standpoint, or a practical one?
 

GA_Boater

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The question - "Is it possible to install air valves to my logs?"

The technical answer is "Yes".

The practical answer is "Don't bother".
 

WaterDR

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Funny to read all this....I have actually taken classes in marine engineering and these types of questions come up more than you would think....they are kind of fun.

One rule to keep in mind...when something floats, the amount of water that is displaced, is equal to the weight of the boat. Simple concept.

I assume the positive pressure needed on pontoons is simply to keep them from crushing. Replacing one gas with another will add or detract weight, but doubt its of any measurable difference.

Balloons with helium float because the combination of the helium and the balloon is lighter than air (which is 80% nitrogen and 20% O2 mostly). No amount of light air in a metal pontoon be be of any consequence and the point about the foam above, is spot on....never understood that one...why anyone would fill a pontoon with foam, other than for shape support, is beyond me. It wont float better.

This question reminds me of the Nitrogen scam that tire installers used to sell. When getting new tires, they would actually sell people on the advantage of adding nitrogen to their tires instead of "normal" air and claiming all sorts of benefits. The charge? 10 to 20 bucks. Dumb.

With standard air being 80% nitrogen already, there is no real benefit of going to 100%. Having "dry" air is more of a concern.
 

bruceb58

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This question reminds me of the Nitrogen scam that tire installers used to sell. When getting new tires, they would actually sell people on the advantage of adding nitrogen to their tires instead of "normal" air and claiming all sorts of benefits. The charge? 10 to 20 bucks. Dumb.
They still do it and people still fall for it. I call it snake air!
 

Silvertip

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And it doesn't take much pressure to burst a pontoon. Do a search on the forum and someone posted a picture illustrating what can happen. Seems to me the tubes are tested at less than 4 psi.
 

Scott Danforth

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And it doesn't take much pressure to burst a pontoon. Do a search on the forum and someone posted a picture illustrating what can happen. Seems to me the tubes are tested at less than 4 psi.

2-3 psi max at about 6psi seams may split, if it holds to 10 psi end caps can come off
 
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