E-Tec vs Yamaha 4 stroke for pontoon performance

ahicks

Captain
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
3,957
Not surprised to hear that really (specially designed for pontoons). Although pontoon boats used to represent a fairly economical (read that "affordable") way to a lot of fun on the water, today's boats have grown incredibly expensive, to the point they're a niche market, demanding an incredible amount of money. OMC (or Bombardier, whatever) likely sees them as a route to a lot of money, driving them to bring out specialized engines.

All they need to do now is come up with upholstery and carpet that doesn't turn to **** after a few years in the sun.
 

H20Rat

Vice Admiral
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
5,199
​I have no idea what say about this. You have the worst dealer and rep I have ever heard of. You may want to watch the videos.

​Wonder what Evinrudes next TV ad will be. Works great as long as you only go fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE4m_OI3qdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE4m_OI3qdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeKVM3K7tRM

With all due respect every video you have posted is direct from Evinrude. That is nothing but promotional material designed to sell engines. I'd trust a dealer who sells multiple engine brands to be a little more unbiased... ;)

From personal experience, etec engines in snowmobiles (skidoo) have had initial reliablity issues on par with other 2 strokes if not worse. (more complicated and more electronics) High mileage e-tec snowmobiles are to be avoided at all costs.

Crank bearings on the e-tecs are a big problem. Without burning oil, a 2 stroke without oil the crankcase will go through crank bearings. Skidoo has proven that fairly often.
 
Last edited:

flyingscott

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
7,985
With all due respect every video you have posted is direct from Evinrude. That is nothing but promotional material designed to sell engines. I'd trust a dealer who sells multiple engine brands to be a little more unbiased... ;)

From personal experience, etec engines in snowmobiles (skidoo) have had initial reliablity issues on par with other 2 strokes if not worse. (more complicated and more electronics) High mileage e-tec snowmobiles are to be avoided at all costs.

Crank bearings on the e-tecs are a big problem. Without burning oil, a 2 stroke without oil the crankcase will go through crank bearings. Skidoo has proven that fairly often.

With all due respect how due E-tecs not have oiled crank bearings. This is what I am talking about you have no idea how an e-tec works the crank bearings are oiled the oil directly injects onto them. The oil injection pumps can be programmed to inject more oil onto the bearings depending on which oil you use.You do realize that 4 strk outboards are dry sump they are not like a car with an oil pan. The oil sits below the motor and is pumped up into it. You cannot compare snowmobile motors to a outboard motor they are not the same application. The fact you do not understand how an e-tec works doesn't bother me the fact that you bash them when you don't is troublesome. I have friends who have Ski Doo E-tecs some of them are at 8000 miles and as reliable as any other sled. I have friends whos livelihood is fishing they all use e-tecs they all have over 1000 hrs on them they will buy them again. Don't make 4 strks out to be something special and they have electronics for the fuel injection to. But now you added valves, timing belts and camshafts sometimes more than one and even balance shafts with the associated belts and pulleys. The ski-doo sleds with E-TEC have been out quite a few years their initial quality problems are fixed. I realize that you are a 4 strk fan and I will never convince you the e-tec is a good motor. But at least get the facts right about the motor itself. Unlike you I like 4 stroke outboards I may lean to the 2 strks side of things but I would have no issues putting a 4 strk on my boat if the price was right. By the way the videos were information for the OP only that nothing more no different than sitting there listening to a dealer tell you about the motor except my way can be done from the couch.
 
Last edited:

82rude

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
4,082
flyingscott I bought my etec from a multiple brand dealer and ive been in the back and talked to the mechs.As you stated theres no more no less faults with etec vs merc 4 strokes and actually etec is easier to work on with way less moving parts.This dealer sells a lot of etec and my friend was hoping to buy a used 60 but was told by the dealer that they have never had a 60 come in for work other than the 300hr service and they have never had anybody want to trade them in either.When I bought my etec the dealer and me talked a lot about the 60 etec vs the 60 merc which I was looking at very closely and it was his recommendation that the etec was a superior motor to the merc 60 4 stroke in every and all respects.Its not that the merc was bad its not its just that the etec was that much better.Torque on the etec is massive vs the merc or even the Yamaha and its built heavier expecially on the lower unit.My buds merc 4 stroke puked its motor early on in its life so they are just as likely as anyother to have issues being a mechanical object its open to failure. just like anything mechanical.Todays outboards are mechanical wonders what with fuel injection,dfi,computers ,its amazing that more don't have big problems and just goes to show how good outboards of all types are today.By all means people buy what you want and be happy with it just don't feel the need to shoot down somebody elses brand .Dealers do it all the time and its expected its up to us to weed out the b.s.that they all spout off .Ok babbling over,lol.Enjoy your motors boys.
 
Last edited:

mpilot

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
65
I would also ask why your friends Brand new 225 E-tec was not fixed or replaced under warranty. Something fishy there as there is a 3 yr no touch warranty.
​Another question is how do these dealers know that a 4 strk will outlast a DI 2 strk they have been around roughly the same amount of time. I am sorry I have no allegiance either way to 4 or 2 strks but this whole thing is people who don't like 2 strks. This whole thing is to fishy, Evinrude dealers and reps saying only go fast otherwise your motor won't run right . Competing dealers saying the E-Tec will not last as long, there is a surprise. $20,000 dollar plus motors not being fixed under warranty just sold, not right.

It was coversed under warranty both times he has gone in but he still has to take it off the lift, trailer it to the dealer, etc. A guy in our neighborhood is replacing failed injectors in an etec 150HO with less than 800 hours on it. You do have three years of no touch maintenence but that 300 hour service is fairly pricey for a 2 stroke. Our boat would have been a few mph faster with the 150ho vs the Mercury 150 four stroke. Before you say how much easier the etec is to service you should do some research. The mercury only required oil changes every 100 hours with no 20 hour service after break in, alternator belt and water pump at 300 hours. No 2 stroke oil to add to the engine, valve adjustments, etc and it's a single cam, 8 valve, 3.0 liter engine that weighs in a tick under 450 lbs which is close in weight to the 2 strokes out there with similar torque numbers. The etec is a great motor in the right applications.

Oh and the dealer can say that the motors are less reliable even though they have been out the same amount of times because they are replacing power heads on the etec motors at much lower hours than the Mercury engines.

I have no doubt at certain hp's the etecs are the best just like mercury, yamaha, suzuki, Honda, etc all have their ranges they shine. In the 150 class mercury and yamaha pretty much own the pontoon/tritoon class. Yamaha was never a choice for us because the services are outrageous and not diy friendly. I can change my fluids every 100 hours for about what it costs for 1 gallon of the oil for the etec ho motors.

You have friends with 1000 plus hours on etecs? I don't doubt that but ask them if they are running them nearly all the time above or below half throttle? When u start seeing etecs with 4000+ hours like you see on four strokes I'll be impressed.

Edit to add: The mercury 4 stroke was actually a bit cheaper than the etec *non ho* when we bought our boat. That pricing was consistent from the dealer we bought from that talked us out of the motor as well as my friends dealer that loves the etecs. Our boat was a full custom order so no bias of a dealer selling us what was on the lot already.
 
Last edited:

mpilot

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
65
​I have no idea what say about this. You have the worst dealer and rep I have ever heard of. You may want to watch the videos.

​Wonder what Evinrudes next TV ad will be. Works great as long as you only go fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE4m_OI3qdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE4m_OI3qdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeKVM3K7tRM

I don't see any of those putting around for 100 hours at half throttle or less. The bad dealer is the one that sold a motor that's a bad fit for the customers needs, and then having the evinrude factory rep admit the motor is a bad fit for the application, and that plugs will have to be replaced every 50-100 hours unless the motor is run harder. Again, all motors have their applications but the larger hp etecs want to be ran hard.
 

82rude

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
4,082
mpilot my 300 hr service was a crushing 50 dollars for my 60 etec.My friends merc 4 stroke didn't even make 50 hrs before it had total valvetrain failure.He,s had many years of service since with the new powerhead they supplied.Iwatched a new 250 Yamaha being towed in by a 75 85hp Johnson that grenade.Point being anything can happen to anymotor at anytime.
 

mpilot

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
65
mpilot my 300 hr service was a crushing 50 dollars for my 60 etec.My friends merc 4 stroke didn't even make 50 hrs before it had total valvetrain failure.He,s had many years of service since with the new powerhead they supplied.Iwatched a new 250 Yamaha being towed in by a 75 85hp Johnson that grenade.Point being anything can happen to anymotor at anytime.


I want to know where you get parts from then. The required service at 300 hours is lower unit oil, drain and fill seals for screws on lower unit, water pump (which usually means replacing the exhaust gasket as well), thermostats, spark plugs, and zincs. I seriously doubt you did all that for 50 bucks so good luck with the warranty claim if you ever have one.
 
Last edited:

flyingscott

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
7,985
I am out. the facts are the facts I can't change them. This is turning into a friend had problems now it's a guy in our neighborhood pretty soon it will be my cousins sisters brothers mother boyfriend had problems. By the way taking your boat in for service is normal but a good dealer would have sent somebody out there. The op probably already bought his motor
 

82rude

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
4,082
Water pump is not required to be changed at 300 hrs.Please read the manual and educate yourself about what really needs to be done not .what you think should be done.The 300 hr service is check and replace if necessary not replace just because.Now an exception would be saltwater motors or severe duty motors.My dealer is a well respected and trusted dealer and I'm also not shy about calling evinrude and questioning them directly if I have doubts.Not trying to get in a pissing match here but I know my motor and its requirements better than you would .But you are correct that it would of costed a lot more if the impeller and t stat need to be change .Once the 6 year warranty is done I will be doing all the servicing other than what needs to be done if anything by the computer which is out of my league.
 
Last edited:

mpilot

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
65
You are right, it is all required to be checked and replaced if necessary. You do have a hell of a dealer if he was willing to drop the lower unit to check the water pump and do all the other required checks for only 50 bucks along with pulling the thermostats to check, which would, at the least, require new gaskets for the lower unit and thermostats.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with anyone over this. It seems to me the biggest "fan boys" are the etec guys. I am willing to concede they are good motors but they do have their drawbacks just like every other motor. Just google etec fouling spark plugs and see how many results come up. What happens (again straight from the manufacturer) is that when you run above the 2000 rpm mark but just barely there is some sort of bypass in the cooling system. Basically it runs much colder than it should if you consistently run it in that 2000-2500 rpm range. This causes the cylinders to not get hot enough and plugs to foul.

On cost of ownership:
Here's a great third party resource below. They based their numbers on the services and what is recommended for all. Before you cry foul when you look at your they include all of the "check and replace if necessary items" as part of the service and use base rates for labor. The service costs on the Mercury are a little higher than the estimates I got from dealers around here so they all seem to be inflated, but inflated equally. Like your etec my Mercury doesn't require me to replace the water pump, plugs, etc but while I'm paying the labor to pull the lower unit and check it I might as well have it done. Notice the cost for 300 hours on the etc is right at round $1250 in oil and the 300 hour service. The Mercury comes in at $1206 and is basically right on par with the Etec's cost of ownership.

We did our homework before buying and had quotes from all 5 dealers we considered at the boat show this past February before ordering and that not only included the cost of the boat but what their rates would be for the first 300 hours which for us will be roughly a year and a half of ownership. Granted, they couldn't get the oil right on the button but they have a pretty good idea of how much you will need and their quotes mirrored the below article as there was very little difference in the cost of maintenance to the Etec and Mercury 150's.

Again, not bashing the etecs, I'm just sick and tired of all the fan boys out there saying they are the best thing since sliced bread. There are pros and cons to each. As I stated, the tests on our boat with an etec had it running a few mph faster with a little better cruise economy, but when we considered everything the motors were fairly even from a performance/ownership standpoint. The biggest tiebreaker was honestly the noise, particularly at low rpm, so we would have went with the four stroke even if you through the questions out about the longevity of the motors. Both etec dealers did seem to be optimistic the G2's have corrected some of the issues they have had with the etec motors much like the etec improved on the ficht motors.

http://www.boatingmag.com/gear/boatinglab-tests-outboard-ownership-costs
 
Last edited:

mpilot

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
65
I am out. the facts are the facts I can't change them. This is turning into a friend had problems now it's a guy in our neighborhood pretty soon it will be my cousins sisters brothers mother boyfriend had problems. By the way taking your boat in for service is normal but a good dealer would have sent somebody out there. The op probably already bought his motor


These are the two of the handful of people I know with etecs on their toons that I know enough about to share and comment on, so that's my only experience. Honestly not a ton of Etecs on pontoons or tritoons on our lake. The friend is basically like a second father to me who I help around his boats all the time so I get to hear his unfiltered thoughts on the subject. When he first bought it he was like all the other fan boys spouting the no service for 300 hours yada yada yada. After buying a couple hundred bucks in oil in the last year and a half or so and being on the third set of plugs he's changed his tune a little. In fact, he's had nothing but Evinrudes on his boats going back to the early 90's, but the boats he's looking at now are all 4 stroke. The neighbor is a couple of boat slips down from us in our neighborhood marina and has a boat rental business which is why he runs the etecs. The one with the high hours and needing injectors is only a year or year and a half old I think.

Again, not turning this into a pissing contest, but it seems like all the Evinrude fans are. I'm just trying to respond to the OP and give what I have heard about the different motors. Nothing against the motors in general but I just don't know many people who have them on pontoons/tritoons and the ones that do admit the four strokes are probably better overall for most people on toons.
 
Last edited:

82rude

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
4,082
We have gotten far away from the op,s orginal question which was about smaller motors .I suppose I'm a fanboy as the 60 which I believe is in the range of the op,s question is all if not more than ive expected.Time and time again ive seen the ill informed shoot down the etecs as smokey old tech where as you well know that's the farthest thing from the truth.I would think the 60 would be ideally suited for a small pontoon due to its great low end torque and robust build.My biggest concern about the new 4 strokes is their weight loss and if anything was sacrificed to get there.
 

mpilot

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
65
We have gotten far away from the op,s orginal question which was about smaller motors .I suppose I'm a fanboy as the 60 which I believe is in the range of the op,s question is all if not more than ive expected.Time and time again ive seen the ill informed shoot down the etecs as smokey old tech where as you well know that's the farthest thing from the truth.I would think the 60 would be ideally suited for a small pontoon due to its great low end torque and robust build.My biggest concern about the new 4 strokes is their weight loss and if anything was sacrificed to get there.

No matter which brand you go with you should opt for the pontoon designed motor like the command thrust mercury or etec pontoon seris. I'm sure yamaha makes one too. They have a different gear ratio and sling a bigger prop which helps tremendously. Also mercury makes a 4 blade spitfire aluminum prop just for pontoons.
 

ahicks

Captain
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
3,957
Just as a reminder, the OP's question is regarding a 16' boat. As such, weight is a pretty big factor. Suggestion (like 60hp) should be carefully considered.
 

WaterDR

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
730
Not surprised to hear that really (specially designed for pontoons). Although pontoon boats used to represent a fairly economical (read that "affordable") way to a lot of fun on the water, today's boats have grown incredibly expensive, to the point they're a niche market, demanding an incredible amount of money. OMC (or Bombardier, whatever) likely sees them as a route to a lot of money, driving them to bring out specialized engines.

All they need to do now is come up with upholstery and carpet that doesn't turn to **** after a few years in the sun.


There is an unholy amount of new pontoons on the river.... So true.
 

mpilot

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
65
Just as a reminder, the OP's question is regarding a 16' boat. As such, weight is a pretty big factor. Suggestion (like 60hp) should be carefully considered.


Weight should for sure be considered. The Mercury 4 stroke weights in 10lbs heavier and the 60 command thrust vs the 65 Etec pontoon series, the Mercury is lighter, but has 5 less HP. See below for Mercury, Evinrude, and Yamaha weights. The four stroke guys have really caught up in this department by simplifying the engines. Like I said before, no matter what brand I would go for the high thrust series, it's worth the added weight to be able to sling a big prop.

Mercury -
60 EFI 247lbs
60 Command Thrust 260lbs

Evinrdue -
60 Etec 232lbs
65 Pontoon Series 320lbs

Yamaha -
F60 Four stroke 249lbs
T60 High Thrust 262lbs
 
Top