Mariner 4 vs 14 year old Achilles 9'6" hypalon SIB

Megaton

Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
6
Hi everyone,

My wife and I are in the market for our first boat. We first purchased an Intex Excusion 5 and after taking it out on the water we both agreed that we LOVE being out on the water BUT the Excursion was not the right boat for us at this time. Thanks to Cabela's legendary return policy, we were able to return the Excursion and upgrade to a Mariner 4. After reading the thread on this forum, we are very excited and will be adding a wood floor for increased stability.

Then things get interesting...

I found a used Achilles raft that we can likely pick up for roughly the same price as the Mariner 4, however it is 14 years old. The owner claims it was only used 2 years and stored in a garage but the fading on the registration letters/numbers is significant, I could be mistaken but it appears to have more than 2 years worth of use.

So now we are at a crossroads, keep the Mariner 4 or go for the 14 year old Achilles?

The boat will be used for fishing in lakes and ponds and will be powered by a Minn Kota 40# thrust motor. We are both in college, I am graduating in December while my wife is graduating a year from December. We plan to upgrade in 2-3 years when we have more spending cash. My belief is that potentially the Achilles could last us longer than 2-3 years, allowing us to upgrade to an even BETTER boat later on. I believe that the Mariner will suit our needs fine for the next couple years but do have some hesitations about the quality.

My wife wants to keep the Mariner 4 while I am leaning towards the Achilles.

Pro's for the Mariner:
Roomier
More stable (after adding wood floor)
New

Pro's for the Achilles:
Originally a $2500 boat
More durable?
Can take a higher HP motor (not really a factor for us at this time)

What do the experts think? Keep the Mariner or go for the 14 year old Achilles for roughly the same price?

Thanks
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi everyone,

My wife and I are in the market for our first boat. We first purchased an Intex Excusion 5 and after taking it out on the water we both agreed that we LOVE being out on the water BUT the Excursion was not the right boat for us at this time. Thanks to Cabela's legendary return policy, we were able to return the Excursion and upgrade to a Mariner 4. After reading the thread on this forum, we are very excited and will be adding a wood floor for increased stability.

Then things get interesting...

I found a used Achilles raft that we can likely pick up for roughly the same price as the Mariner 4, however it is 14 years old. The owner claims it was only used 2 years and stored in a garage but the fading on the registration letters/numbers is significant, I could be mistaken but it appears to have more than 2 years worth of use.

So now we are at a crossroads, keep the Mariner 4 or go for the 14 year old Achilles?

The boat will be used for fishing in lakes and ponds and will be powered by a Minn Kota 40# thrust motor. We are both in college, I am graduating in December while my wife is graduating a year from December. We plan to upgrade in 2-3 years when we have more spending cash. My belief is that potentially the Achilles could last us longer than 2-3 years, allowing us to upgrade to an even BETTER boat later on. I believe that the Mariner will suit our needs fine for the next couple years but do have some hesitations about the quality.

My wife wants to keep the Mariner 4 while I am leaning towards the Achilles.

Pro's for the Mariner:
Roomier
More stable (after adding wood floor)
New

Pro's for the Achilles:
Originally a $2500 boat
More durable?
Can take a higher HP motor (not really a factor for us at this time)

What do the experts think? Keep the Mariner or go for the 14 year old Achilles for roughly the same price?

Thanks


If lake/pond fishing was the main purpose i would go for the mariner 4 hands down. Honestly if you are new to boating buy a new boat.
 

ronaldj

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
655
You never buy a used boat as a first boat. The Achillies is going to need some work that you are not prepared to do. And just so you know the Achillies is not a raft. You also won't be able to power it with a trolling motor. If the only power in your budget at present is a trolling motto then get the Mariner M4
 

Megaton

Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
6
Ok thanks for the advice we will keep the mariner. Just curious, why would we not be able to troll with the achilles? It weighs just under 100#, after adding the wood floor to the mariner the weight will be pretty close to the same if not more, unless I am mistaken? Is there a factor other than weight that would determine how much motor you would need?
 

ronaldj

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
655
For starters you didn't mention what type of floor the Achillies has. With the floor the boat weighs over 100 pounds. 40 pounds of thrust is a little less that 1hp. Will that move a Sib. Only if there is no current and you are not fighting a tide Also be advised that you should not use a freshwater trolling motor in saltwater or brackish water
 

Megaton

Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
6
I though that SIB meant it had an inflatable floor, where as RIB meant rigid floor, am I mistaken? In my original post I stated that we would be using our boat to fish in lakes and ponds.

I'm not trying to argue as you obviously have much more experience and knowledge than I do but I am still not understanding why I won't be able to troll with a 40# thrust electric motor. My research has led me to believe that a 40# thrust trolling motor would be perfect for the Mariner 4. I've watched a few youtube videos that seem to confirm this.

Mariner 4 with 40# thrust electric

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kikYjN6giPE

Mariner 4 with 4 people and 50# thrust electic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-cwJ-_emxs

Mariner 4 with 45# thrust electric

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjaq6BWLuks

Again, not trying to argue, just trying to educate myself and make sure we purchase the right motor for the job.
 

Brusac

Seaman
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Messages
67
I have had my Mariner 4 for about 1 year and a 1/2 now. I was strictly rowing up until a few weeks ago when I picked up a 30# trolling motor on Craigslist for $25 and it moves the M4 along very nicely (at least compared to rowing). I know next to nothing about the Achilles so I can't give expert advice on that. What I can say is you already like what you have and by your own admission are very excited about it so why drop it before you really get started with it? With the right care a new M4 should easily last you the 2-3 years you already figured you needed to be able to upgrade to something more significant. The compromise you make with yourself now to stick with the M4 (also making your wife happy) will seem trivial and insignificant when you are looking back in hind sight 3 years from now.
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Which size is the Achilles ? Which type of floor is it, alum, wooden, inflatable deck ? Does it has a built transom or has an engine supported frame aft. Can sit a light engine on both systems to power sib properly for fishing activities. It it were me would go for the Achilles, it's Hypalon made, fabric is thicker than PVC and will hold tons of UV sun abuse, abrasssions. If fabric was well kept will last 15 more years.. When time comes, can sell it as an ideal cheap dinghy tender.

As you clearly stated is your first cheapo purchase and will go from there to a larger sib/engine combo once studies yields profits. If possible check Achilles physical conditions, even post some pics if possible for posters to have a general state look.

Happy Boating
 

Lund_bC

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
136
I would take the achillies in a heart beat.. really I just traded a $3500 ( i didn't buy it new) 8ft apex rib for a 25year old achillies sib 11ft. my apex was considered "new" at 10 years old to many. After lots of research i decided to switch, to be honest i didn't see teh year until after i fell in love with my new boat, so 25 years i guess it's possible that the glue that holds the seams could fail in the next 5 years, but imagine i will outgrow this well before then and maybe be looking at a 15fter someday soon with a larger motor. the fabric is in great shape, the plastic glue stuff is cracking for sure.
,
you will feel less "green" out in a slightly warn boat, it will be less of a target for thiefs, and you will feel less "plasticy" think (something about new colorful rubber boats can look cheap with all the other synthetic gear, compared with a nice wood kayak or something say. the achillies is a classic and is maybe the difference of having a "real" boat and a toy boat in some ways.

Maybe go for both as it sounds like you could unload that achillies for the same you paid in a year or two without much effort, and then start looking for a few hp gas motor, but i can't see why the electric couldnt' push it, i have used and electric in a tin boat with current and tides and winds and although sometimes you aren't going fast or not sure you are even moving, you are, and most of the time it works great, you have to know how far your power will go though.
 

Megaton

Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
6
Wow thank you all for the replies! The boat in question is an Achilles LSI-96, its a 9'6" boat with soft inflatable floor. I've attempted to attach a few pictures below.


Achiles LSI-96 2.JPG
 

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Lund_bC

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
136
well the fading of the letters numbers thing has nothing to do with the hypalon, the boat fabric isn't going to a be a problem, you can patch any hole on a hypalon boat easily that will last forever, as long as there isn't major damage on the achillies it is a much better boat, you might be able to use the achillies for 4-5 years and sell it again for a good chunk of cash, sailboats would buy it, they just use it to go to shore..

i don't know much about the mariner4 but i did look in google, looks nice but i would rather have the ability to grow with a outboard gas motor and have a real transom, who knows you might end up with a 8hp 2 stroke an plane around with the family at a good speed and save on fuel.. it would expand your range ..

That achillies is a beautyful boat ! the mariner 4 looks different i didn't mean to insult it i have a little play boat by the same company so i was confused.

Still Achillies is what the IRB racers in australia use, check them on youtube and you will see what kind of crazy things are possible, it's one of the best boats on the market and will hold it's value for many years.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Well now that I see the pic. That Achilles looks very nice and I Would probably go for it. I was expecting a very dirty and abused boat. Based on the pics it does look like it had very little use. The fading letters is normal because it was done with a sharpie marker. Go for the Achilles. Go there with a spray bottle with soap and spray the crap out of it while inflated to 3psi. You will be able to confirm if it has any holes that need repair. I doubt a trolling motor will push it but you can pick up a nice 2.5 or 3.5 outboard for 200 bucks.
 
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ronaldj

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
655
That Achillies has a High Pressure Air Floor and Keel. They have to be inflated to 11PSI. The picture does not look like the keel in properly inflated. There is no question that if the Achillies has no holes it is a much better boat. The Achillies is an actual Sib. Where is the M4 is closer to a raft
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
A single picture is better than 1K written words.....GO FOR IT. Has a built transom and that alone will make the whole cruising difference compared to a any number Mariner..BTW, what's it's max HP engine transom rated for ? check transom's plate. A min 5 HP engine would be ideal for that size.

Mariner type sibs are low budget first starters compact sibs, an Achilles is a four wheel drive, only needs the machine gun up front...

Happy Boating
 
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Megaton

Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
6
Update:

We decided to pass on the Achilles. I was able to convince the wife that it was the better option, however we found out that the owner does not have the title so we decided it was not worth the hassle. So we are sticking with the Mariner, it should serve us well until we decided to upgrade in a couple years. We also picked up a 2 hp evinrude to power it, we were able to demo it before purchasing and payed half of what the electric motor setup would have cost after factoring in the battery and charger.

Thank you all for the info and advice, we really appreciate it!
 
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