Was I taken advantage of???

keninaz

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
448
I bought a new boat, motor and trailer recently. All items represented as 2015 parts.
2 weeks after my purchase I get the manufacturer's statement of origin (MSO) showing that the motor is not a 2015 and was manufactured in 2014 during the month of Feb and is in fact a 2014 model year. The motor was effectively already 14 months old since it was made.
I would think that the product has been misrepresented here and perhaps should have been discounted by some 10%. It would be different if the contract showed I was getting a 2014 motor and I had agreed to that.
Granted there is no difference and the motor is NOS but if I were to resell it I just lost a year of value.
I called the dealer and he says they have no control over what year they get when they pull a motor from the warehouse.
I am considering a small claims court action against the dealer.
What do you think?
 
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MTboatguy

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When it comes to boat motors, I believe you are over thinking it, which many of us do when we make major purchases. You got a new engine. What is the actual cost difference between one that say 2015 and one that says 2014? Did they make any changes in the motor between the years? If we were actually talking titled boat hulls, then yes, you might have a claim, but I think it is going to be difficult to really come up with anything when talking about a boat motor. In the long run, you are not going to loose any value, especially if you are in a location that does not title boat motors. As far as suing the dealer, he has no control of what motor gets pulled and put of the boat, that is done by the manufacture. To be honest with you, I have bought a few brand new boats over the years and never do I remember them stipulating what year the motor was, simply that it was a brand new motor. Around here, they simply advertise New boat, New Motor and New Trailer, despite the fact that it could be a couple of years old. Recreational products seem to have a different set of guidelines, that is unless there are major changes made.
 
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mtrainTurbo

Seaman
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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
74
This is extremely common practice, especially with stern drive boats. Boat builders stock up on them over a year in advance.

In short, stop worrying about it.
 

keninaz

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
448
When it comes to boat motors, I believe you are over thinking it, which many of us do when we make major purchases. You got a new engine. What is the actual cost difference between one that say 2015 and one that says 2014? Did they make any changes in the motor between the years? If we were actually talking titled boat hulls, then yes, you might have a claim, but I think it is going to be difficult to really come up with anything when talking about a boat motor. In the long run, you are not going to loose any value, especially if you are in a location that does not title boat motors. As far as suing the dealer, he has no control of what motor gets pulled and put of the boat, that is done by the manufacture. To be honest with you, I have bought a few brand new boats over the years and never do I remember them stipulating what year the motor was, simply that it was a brand new motor.

As stated, my sales contract states it's a 2015 motor. And I have a printout showing I could have bought this motor shipped free as a 2014 leftover for $1700 vs. the $2259, (retail for a new 2015) that was posted just before I bought my package.
Boats are titled here in AZ if they have motorized power, even a trolling motor. The motor is not but we do get the MSO which you pass along when you sell it to the next person. That serves as your title in this state.
 

MTboatguy

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As stated, my sales contract states it's a 2015 motor. And I have a printout showing I could have bought this motor shipped free as a 2014 leftover for $1700 vs. the $2259, (retail for a new 2015) that was posted just before I bought my package.
Boats are titled here in AZ if they have motorized power, even a trolling motor. The motor is not but we do get the MSO which you pass along when you sell it to the next person. That serves as your title in this state.

Did you inspect the boat and all associated parts of the boat when you took delivery of it? If so, I believe you are going to have a very difficult time proving anything when it is said and done. It is a very common practice in the recreational products market. If you are going to sue, you will most likely spend more than you ever recover, you might talk to the dealer again and see if he will do anything to help you out on the price difference on the motor, but I am doubtful. What was the retail price of the motor you got, compared to the motor you are talking about, they are both new motors. But hey, who am I to say, go for it and see how it turns out. One things I will ask, does any of the paper work you signed and got from the dealer have the serial number for the motor on it? If not, again, I seriously doubt you have much of a leg to stand on. Now, lets think of it in the reverse, the dealer put 2014 on the paperwork for the motor and the factory was out of 2014 motors so they pulled the identical 2015 and put it on the boat, you find out, you were sold a 2014 and got a 2015, would you go back to the dealer and give him the difference? Probably not. Do you know what month the motor manufactured from 2014 to 2015 motors? I bet they don't even really know unless they dug deep into their records.

Like I said, I don't believe you have much of a leg to stand on, but again as said, it is your money, your time and I will be interested to see how it all turns out for you, Please let us know.
 
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batman99

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 13, 2012
Messages
393
During certain times of the year, brand new automobiles are the same thing. re: Buy a brand new 2015 vehicle in Feb 2015 and after lots of research, you discover its parts (engine, transmission, seats, etc.) were made in 2014 and perhaps even made in late 2013. Sad to say but same "time delay" within boat industry as well...
 

gm280

Supreme Mariner
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Jun 26, 2011
Messages
14,585
I would say you can waste both time and money to pursue this further, but I would hit the water and enjoy it and forget about it. If you look at most anything, the actual year it was purchased has very little to do with the manufacturing date. Tires are a great example of that. You can keep yourself all worked up and raise your blood pressure, or let it go and pick some other fight to get excited about. I don't think you will win in most any court... JMHO!
 

thumpar

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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
I am sure the engine in your car/truck was made before the vehicle was also. Heck most vehicles anymore will say the next year on the title but you can buy them 6 months before that year. I wouldn't worry about it. If you are just worried about resale take care of the boat. That adds more value than anything.
 

roffey

Commander
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Nov 22, 2012
Messages
2,184
I bought my boat new in 2014. I believe the trailer is a 2012 and the boat and motor are 2013. the last four digits of my serial number are i314, meaning the boat is a 2014 made in September of 2013.
 

airshot

Rear Admiral
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Jul 22, 2008
Messages
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Is this worth taking to court....probably not, however I would have a beef with your dealer. If your paper work specifically states a 2015 model year motor and your origin statement says 2014 then I would have a complaint with the dealer. If he does nothing then call the local news channel and show them the paperwork and have them do an investigation for the news. Now your dealer may be willing to do something....he doesn't want the bad press. At least get some satisfaction from it.
 

MTboatguy

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Jul 8, 2010
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Yes, get some satisfaction out of it with the dealer that really had nothing to do with the motor that got hung on the back of that boat. At least you will have satisfaction, but then again, you might have no place to get your boat serviced, but what the heck. Satisfaction is worth a lot.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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I bought a new boat, motor and trailer recently. All items represented as 2015 parts.
2 weeks after my purchase I get the manufacturer's statement of origin (MSO) showing that the motor is not a 2015 and was manufactured in 2014 during the month of Feb and is in fact a 2014 model year. The motor was effectively already 14 months old since it was made.
I would think that the product has been misrepresented here and perhaps should have been discounted by some 10%. It would be different if the contract showed I was getting a 2014 motor and I had agreed to that.
Granted there is no difference and the motor is NOS but if I were to resell it I just lost a year of value.
I called the dealer and he says they have no control over what year they get when they pull a motor from the warehouse.
I am considering a small claims court action against the dealer.
What do you think?

I think you do not understand the reality of motor/trans/trailer and component manufacturing as they feed into the wholegoods market. you are making much ado about nothing.
 

Tnstratofam

Commander
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Aug 18, 2013
Messages
2,679
If you were given the option to by the 2014 motor at a lower price than a 2015 engine but you opted for the 2015 and paid for that option. Then found out you got the 2014 motor I would think you're owed the difference in price of the two motors.

Otherwise it's like has already been stated above you've got a new unused engine. Go boating and enjoy your new boat.
 

sublauxation

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Oct 13, 2008
Messages
1,317
I thought some manufacturers stopped selling outboards with a model year for this very reason.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
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Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,657
Yep, no model years on most outboards. Just a serial number, and a manufacture date. But no actual model year.
Model year may be issued/specified when the manufacturer releases it along with issuing it paperwork.

When the new epa regs went into effect, there were many new outboards being sold as new, as late as 2009, 2010, when they were actually manufactured in 2006. I believe they did issue a model year designation on those motors, (as 2009, etc).


Now, if there is an actual difference in the motors, or the features, specs, then I would be upset.
 

tpenfield

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I think . . . that while you may be upset, you will not get anywhere doing the small claims court thing . . . Boats sold as a package sometimes do have different manufacturing dates on boat/trailer/motor. Any savings of a previous model year product that the dealer may have received may already been passed along in the form of the package savings.

What does the written word say in your sales agreement? Might be something in the fine print that stipulates 'new' versus 'current model' year :noidea:
 

Georgesalmon

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Apr 14, 2012
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To put it simply, "model year" and "year manufactured" are not the same in all cases. Most manufacturers start the new "model year" up to six months before the calendar year changes.
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,758
Let's put a few things in perspective. RV's were mentioned as using this process however RV manufacturers don't buy engines. They buy "chassis" that include an engine. That chassis is merged with a superstructure that enters the market at a specific point in the model year. You get a title for the "vehicle" not the engine. I think it was Yamaha that started the "no model year" thing quite a few years back. The theory on their part was that as long as there were no major design differences in the engines, it made no difference what year the engine was manufactured in and it allowed dealers to better control inventory of their "loose" engines (meaning engine only stock). Serial and model number is all that's necessary to order parts for these "no model year" engines. While that was great news for the dealers, how about the buyer of these engines who down the road a few years want to sell the boat and the prospective buyer learns the engine was manufactured 1, 2, or even three years before the boat. He has no idea where that engine has been in those years, especially if the buyer was the second or third purchaser as there likely would be no sales receipts at this point in time. I think most folks understand the situation with all of this but I personally feel the consumer comes up on the short end of the deal as it allows the manufacturer to many liberties. Comparing this scheme to cars is not really valid either. In the good old days the new car model year started in the August/September period. So a 1955 Chevy for example may have been built in the summer of 1954. Again, you got a title for the car, not the engine. Nowadays, a new model springs up almost anytime and the model year for that car may run upwards of a year and a half. Back to boats, motors and trailers. The boat model year is handled very much like and RV, truck or car. It carries a "model year" title and that boat was built for that model year which may have been a few months before the model year started, or during the actual model year. Trailers work the same way but you will likely find that the sticker on the tongue plainly states the build date but the title will have the correct model year for which that trailer was built. Engines are a totally different animal since technically there may be zero difference between a 100 HP Model x manufactured in 2013 and one manufactured in 2015 but the fact remains, the consumer has an engine that may be one, two, or more years older than the boat it was installed on. Yes -- it is still new at the time of sale. But explain that to the second or third owner and then try to get the current year price out of him. The manufacturers have done a very poor job of explaining there problem and justifying it to the public. In my view if there is so little as one identifying change between any of the engines in the above example, I want the latest one because that identifying feature will make or break a sale because it identifies a later or earlier engine.
 

ssobol

Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 3, 2010
Messages
503
The only thing I would be concerned about is the start date of the warranty. Does the warranty starts when the motor is manufactured or when the motor is delivered to the end user (or the dealer)? In my job I have experienced component parts whose warranty has expired before the assembly has even left the factory.

In this case I would want to be real sure that everyone (dealer, manufacturer, end user) understands when the warranty on the engine starts and ends. If the end user is shorted on the warranty because the engine is a 2014 and not a 2015, I think he has a valid complaint. If the warranty term starts on all the components when the boat package is delivered to the end customer then this is not a big deal, but I would be sure that this was clearly documented.
 
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MTboatguy

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I mentioned Recreational Products Market, Not RV's, RV are completely different than this situation. In the RV market you do indeed buy a chassis, or you buy a frame that has a serial number on it and in conjunction it has a title. If you climb under a RV trailer, you will find the serial number on the frame which will correspond to the serial number on the ID plate as well as the title.

There are many classifications of Recreational Products in the market, in the state I live in boats are considered as recreational product, but they are not considered an RV.

I do agree, double checking the warranty status is far more important, just need to make sure your warranty goes into effect on the date you took delivery of the package.
 
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