Should I buy this older boat?

Skutt

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Apr 8, 2015
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I am new here, looks like a great site to get answers so here goes. I am looking at a pretty nice 1988 Bayliner 1950 Cuddy Cabin. It looks to be in good condition for it's age, seats, overall condition and appearance are good. I would say it has probably been stored under cover most of the time. It is in the sellers garage now. It comes with some extras, fish finder, 7.5 hp Evenrude, boat cover and more. It has serious engine issues but I am a good mechanic and I can fix the engine, rebuild it or whatever it needs. The engine is a Ford 302 so they are available everywhere. My biggest concern is the other systems on the boat. Electrical and the outdrive. Since I cannot run it and put it in the water I think I am breaking rule #1 in boat buying. Thing is I am getting it for just $1000 with trailer. Like I said, I can fix the engine or put in another 302 for probably no more than $500 or so. I do not know the seller but he seems honest and he does not have the skills or time to fix it. I do. He said the out drive works as it should but I have to trust him on that. Besides the engine what are the other concerns when buying a 27 year old boat? As I said, I am not concerned about the engine. I can fix that.
 

tpenfield

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Your issue with the Ford engine will be the marine specific parts, like exhaust manifolds, etc. those may be hard to find. Another thing is the outdrive. . . Is it an OMC? Those too are hard to find parts for as both ford and OMC are not in the marine business any more OMC is gone.

Third thing is the 1988 Bayliner. . . That boat could look good on the outside and yet have some structural issues (rot) on the inside.

So, even at $1k you could be buying a money pit. Not saying that you are, but quite a few things to look into further before you commit to this boat.
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
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Mercruiser and OMC used Chevy and Ford BLOCKS or in the case of the OMC used it's own 2 stroke V4 and a Buick V8 in it's own gull wing hull, back when tri-hulls were popular. Insides of the blocks are different and all are of marine quality, made for continuous WOT operation, unlike automotive applications. Parts are expensive so be prepared for that.

The outdrive has 2 potential issues: corrosion of alum parts if stored in the water, or not flushed properly after salt water usage, and water intrusion into the lower unit gear housing. Those parts are expensive. A quick guess is easy enough. Bring along a large screwdriver with you on your inspection. With the outdrive vertical, like when you are running on the water, carefully remove the drain plug located on the bottom of the gear housing adjacent to the skeg. If water comes out first, or if the drain screw has a magnet inserted in it and the magnet is heavily laden with metallic particles (some are normal....reason for the magnet), or if the oil looks like chocolate milk, you can expect problems. If none of the above, you ought to be good to go. The constant velocity joint where the outdrive is attached to the boat mounting bracket may be worn causing vibration in turns and the exhaust hose between the boat and the outdrive normally requires replacement, especially if sitting for a long time.

Get a manual and check out the engine and outdrive servicing requirements including a new water pump/impeller.

On the trailer, #1 is usually wheel bearing problems due to water intrusion. Expect to have to buy replacement parts but they are inexpensive. Having something like Bearing Buddies, or a grease flushing axle design are big aids in keeping your bearings running right. Use a water resistant grease made for trailer wheel bearings. One is white Lubriplate and the other is Mystic in the blue-green color. Surely there are others popular in your area....read the label.

On the boat, if glass, major problems are water intrusion into wood backing members like the floor (deck), stringers (floor mounts to them) and the transom. All are repairable and not all that expensive, but highly time consuming. Other problems are plastic hulls sometimes crack (only 2 mfgrs I know of) and glass sometimes fails in light weight hulls especially where a lot of flexing is possible.....deck to hull interface and transom to hull interface.

$1000 sounds like a reasonable price even with anticipated problems that surely will occur.

Good luck
 
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Skutt

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Apr 8, 2015
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Thanks tpenfield, I need to inspect the boat more before money changes hands. Since the 302 is in the boat now it has all the marine specific parts on it as long as they are in good operating condition. I believe the outdrive is OMC and I was not aware that they are no longer making them. Thanks again.

Good advice Texasmark, thanks for the response. Now I have a better idea what to look for when I go back and check it further. I verbally committed to buy the boat but no money has changed hands yet. The seller said he put in a new water pump impeller so that should be ready to go. He also said the engine never overheated, it developed a bad knock so he shut it down and brought it in with the small motor.
 
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thumpar

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Mercruiser hasn't used Ford since the 70's so unless it was a typo for the 305 it would be an OMC. OMC parts are getting harder and harder to get. Personally I would pass unless it was free and you wanted a project.
 

Texasmark

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Thanks tpenfield, I need to inspect the boat more before money changes hands. Since the 302 is in the boat now it has all the marine specific parts on it as long as they are in good operating condition. I believe the outdrive is OMC and I was not aware that they are no longer making them. Thanks again.

Good advice Texasmark, thanks for the response. Now I have a better idea what to look for when I go back and check it further. I verbally committed to buy the boat but no money has changed hands yet. The seller said he put in a new water pump impeller so that should be ready to go. He also said the engine never overheated, it developed a bad knock so he shut it down and brought it in with the small motor.

If he shut it down immediately, may not be that much of a problem. Just dismantle it and find the smoking gun. I fixed an International Scout for a guy once that was going to town and started getting a knock/rattling noise. Turned out he seldom used the truck and hadn't changed the oil for quite a while...years. One of his hyd lifters collapsed and let the push rod fall out of the rocker arm allowing the valve to close and remain there with the rocker just flopping in the breeze. Fix was chemical. Pretty simple and cheap.

What others said is true and YOU have to be the judge of that. If the market is adequate, somebody will furnish after market parts for OMC marine products. If not, places like Craig's list or ebay will surely sell parts and maybe at a good price, maybe not. A sizeable dealer who has been in the OMC business for a long time will always have a "stash" of parts

On wood rot, look at the bottom part of the forums on this site, in the restoration section, and see repairs to numerous boats with different kinds of wood rot problems. The boat doesn't have to be rotten at that age. Just depends as I said on the current owner's habits. Bayliner did have a bad name for awhile but I know not the time frame nor the problems.

I bought a 1965 18' Starcraft with a Mercruiser 110 hp I/O and did a complete restoration in about 1985. It was sitting partially submerged in a marina for several years. I gave $1600 for it because I had been looking for and wanting one for a long time. Only thing wrong with the deal was I should have given him like $500 due to his neglect and as a result the engine (block cracked from freezing), floor and transom (wood rot)had to be redone. On the outdrive, corrosion had eaten away at some of the surfaces where gaskets were supposed to seal and I had to rebuild them with JB weld. That was quite a chore. But I did enjoy the project and certainly enjoyed my boat when finished. Your call!!!!!

Mark
 

Bondo

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Mercruiser hasn't used Ford since the 70's so unless it was a typo for the 305 it would be an OMC. OMC parts are getting harder and harder to get. Personally I would pass unless it was free and you wanted a project.

Ayuh,..... Sounds like a money pit to me,.....

Welcome Aboard, Skutt,.... In all honesty,...
Let that one go, 'n look for something with a Chevy based motor, 'n a Mercruiser or Volvo drive, that age or newer,....
 

southkogs

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:welcome:

I agree with the gang ... the boat don't sound like a "deal." It sounds like a project, and I would say buying it would be risky.

That risk might be offset by being able (should the project be hopeless) to sell the trailer, the outboard and the OMC sterndrive parts separately. There's a chance you could recover most of your $1,000 back if those are all in good shape. Sometimes the sum of the parts is worth more than the whole ... but, that's not a guarantee.

If you were just to start looking for another boat: What would you plan to do with it most? How many others would go with you? And what kind of budget would you have to spend on a boat?
 

oldjeep

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You sure it is a ford 302? Or did you see 5.0l and think ford instead of chev 305?
 

airshot

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That old of a glasser would be a NO NO in my book, if your looking for an older inexpensive boat then consider an aluminum hull, no rot to deal with and rivets are easy to replace. Only issue with aluminum is the motor basically.
 

rolmops

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Who would ever want to buy a thirty year old bilgeliner????
 

NYBo

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Welcome to iboats!:welcome:

The outdrive is an OMC Cobra if it's original. Not terrible and most parts are still available. If need be, an entire brand new drive can be bought from SEI.com. I would count on replacing the motor. You cannot just drop in a comparable automotive motor; some parts need to be marine-specific (starter, alternator, distributor, exhaust manifolds, carburetor, and, probably, cam). Most of these could be scavenged from the current motor if they are in good shape. The bigger issue is the boat itself. The boat was made during the lowest period for Bayliner quality (ask me how I know this). Proper sealing of the various wooden components was spotty, and rot is a huge problem Stringers, transom, and cockpit sole need to be looked at carefully.
 

Texasmark

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Welcome to iboats!:welcome:

The outdrive is an OMC Cobra if it's original. Not terrible and most parts are still available. If need be, an entire brand new drive can be bought from SEI.com. I would count on replacing the motor. You cannot just drop in a comparable automotive motor; some parts need to be marine-specific (starter, alternator, distributor, exhaust manifolds, carburetor, and, probably, cam). Most of these could be scavenged from the current motor if they are in good shape. The bigger issue is the boat itself. The boat was made during the lowest period for Bayliner quality (ask me how I know this). Proper sealing of the various wooden components was spotty, and rot is a huge problem Stringers, transom, and cockpit sole need to be looked at carefully.

Well that sums it up for me. Pass on the deal. On shopping for aluminum, that's why I went after the Starcraft....all alum except for the plywood floor (deck) and transom. If I'd had the money and 20-20 hindsight, I'd opted for a later model 140 hp (Chevy 4 like the 110) with PTT (the 110 only had PT). That would have really made that boat sweet.

Good luck,
Mark
 

Skutt

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Apr 8, 2015
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31
I went back over to check out the boat a bit closer so I don't get surprised with a major problem. I could find only one soft spot in the floor, right where you enter the cuddy cabin in the center. I couldn't find any other soft spots in the deck anywhere, I even checked in the battery compartment and it seems good and solid. The seller had it posted as having a Ford 302 and I was a little curious about that because when I looked at it the first time I noticed the engine has the distributor in the back center. Fords have the distributor in the front to the side. I then pulled the oil filler cap off the valve cover, reached a finger in to feel a rocker arm and sure enough those are GM rocker arms, it's not a Ford at all but a Chevy small block. Just looks so different with the marine exhaust manifolds and stuff on the engine. Also it has the "power pack" heads on it, was happy to see those heads on it. I like it a little better knowing it has a Chevy small block rather than the Ford engine. I assume it's probably a 305, being a 1988. I know this isn't supposed to be a discussion about engines here so I will end that for now. I am going to go ahead and buy the boat since it is in fairly descent condition and I am paying only $1000 with trailer, 7.5 Evenrude, life jackets, tow toys and a cover. I am not a professional mechanic but I am a good hobby mechanic so the engine won't be any problem to fix. The seller admits he is not at all a mechanic so I could find that the engine problem is less than what he thinks it is.
 

NYBo

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Just be careful with what $ you put into it! Boats like this have a habit of vacuuming the wallet.
 

Skutt

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Apr 8, 2015
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I appreciate all the advice here. I went ahead and bought the boat, only $1000 for a complete boat although with a serious engine problem. I am an engine guy so fixing it is no big deal. I am picking up a rebuilt Chev 350 from a trusted family friend for just $550. All the marine parts will bolt directly to the 350 from the 305. I will have a nice but old boat in good operating condition for under $2000. It is supposed to be valued at around $3500 so I feel good about this deal. Upholstery is in reasonable condition as is the overall condition of the boat. I am fully aware that OMC is out of business and has been for some time but parts are still out there and this out drive seems to be in good working order. I know, I haven't had it in the water and that is the real test but I have started the engine with hose supplying cooling water and it shifts easy with no issues. I will rebuild the 305 and I have a use for that engine after it is rebuilt. I am glad I found this boat forum and look forward to sharing more boating questions and experiences as I begin my boating lifestyle.
 

Tnstratofam

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I just wanted to add you should buy a factory service manual for your engine/sterndrive set up. I would also rebuild the engine that is in your boat and NOT go the route of installing an automotive engine back in its place. You will have more bang for your buck by keeping the original drivetrain versus trying to go automotive. To convert an automotive engine for marine use requires marine water pump, freeze plugs, camshaft, distributor, intake and carb, as well as finding a block with heads that the OMC manifolds will bolt up to. Not to mention finding the right block that will bolt up to the sterndrive.

Familiarize yourself with the outdrive engine combo thoroughly through a good service manual before you tear into her and you should be good to go. If it is an OMC Cobra sterndrive then you should pay particular attention to the shift cable and it's alignment. It requires a special tool and you will destroy the gears if it is miss aligned or if the cable is stretched.

If by some chance you have an OMC stringer drive ( Not Likely ) they are beyond a pain in the shorts and you should consider parting the hole boat out to save yourself from the money pitt it will become.
 
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